Author Topic: Paizo Pathfinder RPG (Read 8188 times)

Dragon Snack · « **on:** March 19, 2008, 01:48:44 AM »

Essentially a tweak of 3.x. It's a free DL at any rate...

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG

I haven't thouroughly read it, but with a quick glance I see some things I like and somethings I didn't like.

Josh · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:28:50 AM »

My initial take is, if you are going to do something new why not change things more?

Dragon Snack · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2008, 12:49:29 PM »

Hehe...

My initial take was, if you are going to support 3.5, why change so much?

Peaboo · « **Reply #3 on:** April 20, 2008, 06:34:42 AM »

Meh... not interested. I'm looking forward to 4e.

I feel a disturbance in the Force, as if a few voices just cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced... for now....

Josh · « **Reply #4 on:** April 22, 2008, 10:34:30 PM »

The more I hear about 4e with regards to the GSL, the more I think that 3e is not that bad.

Personally I would like to see 3e stay around. 4e looks like WotC can shut any company off, when they feel like it. If everyone moves to 4e away from 3e. And then WotC comes out with 5e they can make it closed and then shut down 4e. No one will be able to migrate the audience back to 3e.

Josh · « **Reply #5 on:** April 24, 2008, 01:52:17 AM »

I just looked through the alpha 2. I am really digging this game.

It is like 3.5 with some big dangly parts.

Peaboo · « **Reply #6 on:** April 25, 2008, 06:40:28 AM »

Oh, there's always something wrong with each edition, but that doesn't make the game as a whole bad. I never thought save vs die was ever really fair, for example. THAC0 was a pain in the ass, but the games were still fun.

As for the whole GSL thing- if third party companies are so great, so awesome, why do they need to rely on the OGL in the first place? Thier support would disappear if they each made their own closed system. They're not about to actually work to create a new and unique system. The thrid party support would disappear overnight.

Having said that, it's not that WotC can shut them off, as they are free to walk away from OGL and make their own systems. Just after 4e was announced, I'd see people planning on getting just the third party products, and use the SRD for the actual rules.

Personally, I don't plan on getting Pathfinder RPG. I don't want to re-buy my 3e material. If I'm going to buy a new game, it's going to be a new game.

And no, I'm not downloading the alpha/beta Pathfinder material.

Josh- so nobody could migrate the audience back to 3e? What does that really matter? How often do you go looking for new groups? If your group decided, "Hey, let's play 3e!" does it matter to anyone else? What if we were to play 2e?

Dragon Snack · « **Reply #7 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:07:18 PM »

Save or Die/Suck is one of those double edged swords. When my players use it, they love it (and ignore that it's Save or Die). When it gets used against them, they hate it...

I'm not sure I'm getting your gist about the GSL vs OGL, vis a vis 3PP. There are some companies that don't rely on the OGL and there are also companies that released their own, non-D&D, stuff using the OGL (FUDGE, Spirirt of the Century). They "relied" on the OGL because it was promoted by WotC as a safe harbor (to gain back the goodwill lost during the T$R C&D campaigns of 2e). They also don't have to walk away from the OGL, since it's perpetual (they are free to ignore the GSL, which is trying to get them to walk away from the OGL - although it appears that enough waves were made that, perhaps, the 'poison pill' may end up removed).

Not sure why you wouldn't DL free RPG material, but I guess that's your choice not to 'support' it. Even if you never run it, you could still mine it for ideas...

I wouldn't go as far as Josh in saying that 'nobody' could migrate their audience back to 3.x, but surely you have to agree that it wouldn't be easy if WotC decides to shaft over 3PPs in the future. That should matter a lot to 3PPs and their customers.

Peaboo · « **Reply #8 on:** April 26, 2008, 06:15:35 AM »

Mine it for what ideas? 3.5 with a few tweaks.

Plus, it would be wrong to download something I have no intention of buying in the future.

Dragon Snack · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2008, 12:58:04 AM »

I take it then, that you will only be playing 4.0 and no other games?

Josh · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2008, 05:33:32 AM »

Quote from: Peaboo on April 26, 2008, 06:15:35 AM

Mine it for what ideas? 3.5 with a few tweaks.

Plus, it would be wrong to download something I have no intention of buying in the future.

The OGL is free. Not in the sense of "Gratis" but the sense of "Libra." Paizo does not care if you download their preview, because they get something out of the deal.

3 and 4 are different games. This will not be like 3 replacing 2. 3 was a flat out superior game, it did everything that 2 did and so much more. 4 has good stuff going for it, but it is fundamentally different from 3. 3 includes the d20 game and forms an actual toolbox for making new games. 4 seems to be a "pure" "brute force" solution. It is a much more limited focused game. That is good if you want to play dungeon crawling adventurers. Bad if you want to make something different

Meg · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2008, 11:08:03 PM »

Quote from: Dragon Snack on April 27, 2008, 12:58:04 AM

I take it then, that you will only be playing 4.0 and no other games?

I know for a fact he will be playing other games. But I still maintain that even if you play 4e, the door to other D&D games will be left wide open.

Peaboo · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2008, 12:43:54 AM »

Sure, I'll play other games, but the more I encounter bad games- (And I'll crevat that with my blog where I stated D&D spoiled me- I want AC and Hit Points. Simplicity.) the less I'm inclined to even want to try new non-D&D games.

Will I ever play 3e after 4e is out? Sure, I've got the books after all. Most of the time I'll update the old material to the newest version, though.

Josh · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2008, 03:09:21 AM »

Quote from: Peaboo on April 28, 2008, 12:43:54 AM

Sure, I'll play other games, but the more I encounter bad games- (And I'll crevat that with my blog where I stated D&D spoiled me- I want AC and Hit Points. Simplicity.) the less I'm inclined to even want to try new non-D&D games.

Will I ever play 3e after 4e is out? Sure, I've got the books after all. Most of the time I'll update the old material to the newest version, though.

AC and HP are simpler. Except when they are not. As a totality HP are actually more complicated and difficult than most other good systems. Savage Worlds and Burning Wheel when looked at in totality are easier than HP. SW is actually easier in use than HP in basic execution as well.

HP is easy, in the sense you just subtract numbers until you die. But the layout of HP, when you should consider yourself hurt and how you recover hp all greatly complicates the issue.

Peaboo · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2008, 05:12:23 AM »

Quote from: Josh on April 27, 2008, 05:33:32 AM

Quote from: Peaboo on April 26, 2008, 06:15:35 AM
Mine it for what ideas? 3.5 with a few tweaks.

Plus, it would be wrong to download something I have no intention of buying in the future.

The OGL is free. Not in the sense of "Gratis" but the sense of "Libra." Paizo does not care if you download their preview, because they get something out of the deal.

Sure, for them, but they're not going to get my money when the release the RPG book for sale, and I just don't want to download the alpha documents. Paizo won't care if I don't download, but they would care that I'm not buying their products.

Josh · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2008, 12:36:49 PM »

Not wanting their products because you are not interested is fine. You join lots of people in that regard.

But you don't need justify not downloading it because of not buying it. Personally I was skeptical of the game until I saw it.

Peaboo · « **Reply #16 on:** April 29, 2008, 02:22:53 AM »

I'm not justifying anything, just pointing out the reason why I choose not to download it.

You should know my morality compass by now. I thought that's why you guys found me so charming.

Meg · « **Reply #17 on:** April 29, 2008, 11:30:53 AM »

Quote from: Peaboo on April 29, 2008, 02:22:53 AM

I'm not justifying anything, just pointing out the reason why I choose not to download it.

You should know my morality compass by now. I thought that's why you guys found me so charming.

You my dear sir, are possibly the most "good" aligned person I know.

I'm classic Lawful Neutral. Zeke is Chaotic Good. Josh... well, let's just say he ain't no Paladin.

benbalestra · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2008, 07:44:07 PM »

Quote from: Josh on March 21, 2008, 02:28:50 AM

My initial take is, if you are going to do something new why not change things more?

Becase of all the material already done for 3/3.5 D&D. That is the potential market Paizo is going for, the people who have massive amount of 3/3.5 book and done what to stop using them, and those that are new to gaming, don't yet have a 3.5 PHB, and need something that will work with all the existing material. They what to make it different enough that players with the shelf full of 3.5 book still need/want to buy Pathfinder, dispite having one or more copies of the 3.5 PHB.

Ben

Orion · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2008, 11:40:34 PM »

That's actually their biggest potential downfall. So far, Alpha is a lot like 3.5, but it's drifting away. If they want to capture the market of people who are looking for backward compatibility, they either need to stop screwing with it or make bloody sure that converting old materials is extremely easy.

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Author Topic: Paizo Pathfinder RPG (Read 8188 times)