Author Topic: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.  (Read 62291 times)

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Maat_Mons

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2010, 08:00:18 PM »
In the back of the book, it references level to mean class level unless otherwise specified.

I had looked for such a rule but could not find one.  I suppose it wasn't included in the Pathfinder SRD.  Not to seem untrusting, but could you quote me the wording on that? 

I ask because, if memory serves, 3.5 has rules that “level” in class descriptions means class level unless otherwise noted, and “level” in spell descriptions means caster level unless otherwise noted, but no rule for other situations, like domain power descriptions.  Also, if the phrasing you used is literally accurate, the stunning fist feat gives uses per day based on your level in some class, rather than character level. 

I'm surprised there aren't qualifications, is what I'm saying. 

McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2010, 08:47:03 PM »
In the back of the book, it references level to mean class level unless otherwise specified.

I had looked for such a rule but could not find one.  I suppose it wasn't included in the Pathfinder SRD.  Not to seem untrusting, but could you quote me the wording on that? 

I ask because, if memory serves, 3.5 has rules that “level” in class descriptions means class level unless otherwise noted, and “level” in spell descriptions means caster level unless otherwise noted, but no rule for other situations, like domain power descriptions.  Also, if the phrasing you used is literally accurate, the stunning fist feat gives uses per day based on your level in some class, rather than character level. 

I'm surprised there aren't qualifications, is what I'm saying. 
In the book, on page 31, top left, last paragraph of the Multiclassing,
Quote
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

It's not in the SRD, I just double-checked. The "Level" entry several pages earlier also states the three types of level: class, character, and spell. Caster-level is a different entry. It's lazy, but PF has the same caveat as 3.5 on that. However, in 3.5, it's listed in the domains section (either in the magic chapter, or in the cleric class desc) that effects are based on cleric level.

Stunning Fist uses are, indeed, equal to monk level + 1/4 levels in non-monk classes. It says as much in the feat.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Maat_Mons

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2010, 03:31:06 AM »
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

Is this what you believe means “level [means] class level unless otherwise specified?”  That only says it is possible (and common) for class abilities to be based on class level.  Those are two very different things. 

However, in 3.5, it's listed in the domains section (either in the magic chapter, or in the cleric class desc) that effects are based on cleric level.

The only thing I can find saying that in 3.5 is the FAQ.  Of course, since only one 3.5 domain I'm aware of, mentalism, actually just says “level,” it's not that big a deal. 

Stunning Fist uses are, indeed, equal to monk level + 1/4 levels in non-monk classes. It says as much in the feat.

You misunderstand.  I was saying that, if what you seemed to be saying was an accurate description of the rules, stunning fist uses would be equal to monk level + 1/4 levels in a single non-monk class.  However, since you apparently didn't mean what you said to be quite the sweeping generality it sounded like, that hypothetical scenario isn't really relevant. 

vrischika111

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2010, 10:21:41 AM »
Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class.

Is this what you believe means “level [means] class level unless otherwise specified?”  That only says it is possible (and common) for class abilities to be based on class level.  Those are two very different things. 

most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class

this is clear. if it's not based on level in that class (and as such, an exception) it must be explicitly explained
(like in the stunning fist example)
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winter_soldier

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2010, 04:30:56 PM »
A18: Probably? There might be penalties depending on the type of animal.

Maat_Mons

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2010, 04:06:56 AM »
if it's not based on level in that class (and as such, an exception) it must be explicitly explained

I hold normal and default to be different concepts.  The text says class features being based on class level is normal, but it would have to say it is the default for “level” in a class feature description to mean class level unless otherwise noted. 

To put it differently, I believe there is a difference between something being uncommon and something being the exception to an explicit game rule. 

Cleric grants you a domain, and a domain grants you a power.  Is the power technically a class feature?  There's a step of removal in there that muddies things a bit.  I would think that, if a domain power is a class feature, the benefit of a feat gained as a fighter bonus feat is a class feature too. 

If a feat gained as a fighter bonus feat is a class feature, and “level” in a class feature description defaults to class level unless otherwise noted, then any feat that references just “level” would default to fighter level instead of character level.  This is purely hypothetical; I can't find a feat worded like that. 

Ignore everything I said about stunning fist.  I misread it in a fairly significant way. 


McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2010, 02:38:43 PM »
Q19
If I use Lightning Stance, can I effectively Hide In Plain Sight anywhere I like, the following round?
You have Concealment, so I'd say yes.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

soulsabre345

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2010, 10:58:22 PM »
Q20

For a eidolon's attacks, is it right that if you build one with 6 claw attacks each claw attack uses full strength instead of half strength? (claws marked as primary, and it says earlier primary gain full strength. but can't a creature only have 1 primary attack and the others are secondary? P60, under evolutions)

Vicerious

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #49 on: August 15, 2010, 12:01:32 AM »
Q20

For a eidolon's attacks, is it right that if you build one with 6 claw attacks each claw attack uses full strength instead of half strength? (claws marked as primary, and it says earlier primary gain full strength. but can't a creature only have 1 primary attack and the others are secondary? P60, under evolutions)

I actually asked one of the devs about this at GenCon.  It's apparently one of the things that PF changes about monsters - they can have more than one primary attack.  So if your eidolon has a bite and two claws, they all do full strength and none of them take the -5 attack penalty.
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soulsabre345

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2010, 08:51:21 PM »
Q22
(ASF = arcane spell failure chance)

for a summoner, they can cast in light armor without ASF. Can that be counted as if they can ignore ASF 20% or lower?

i'm asking in the sense of if you wanted to make a summoner that uses medium armor, would arcane armor training make it so that you could ignore ASF 30% or lower or does it not matter that you can use light armor without ASF in regards to medium armor without ASF

veekie

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2010, 09:03:18 PM »
Nope, it simply negates arcane spell failure for armor of that category and is not a spell failure reductor.
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McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2010, 10:09:54 PM »
Also, keep in mind in Pathfinder, Mithril doesn't change the category of armor. While you move like the lighter category, it specifically calls out that it's treated as it's normal armor category for class features that have limitations (rangers, barbarians, ASF ignoring features like the bards, etc1.)
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

kevin_video

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2010, 03:38:59 AM »
Also, keep in mind in Pathfinder, Mithril doesn't change the category of armor. While you move like the lighter category, it specifically calls out that it's treated as it's normal armor category for class features that have limitations (rangers, barbarians, ASF ignoring features like the bards, etc1.)
Seriously? A mithril breastplate is still medium armor?
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kevin_video

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2010, 04:34:41 AM »
Seriously? A mithril breastplate is still medium armor?
Well,  yes. Except it has less check penalty and spell failure and doesn't slow you down as much... but still requires medium armor proficiency, and hinders Bard casting.
OH! I was thinking more for it counting as light armour. Like does mithril in PF still count as light armour when you sleep in it?
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Senevri

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2010, 04:42:24 AM »
nope, but Endurance now allows sleeping in light or medium armor, and is a prereq for Horiz. walker, and THAT now can grant some flight and ethereal jaunt in addition to dim.door and tremorsense. By Character Level 9. (well, one of those.)

kevin_video

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2010, 04:47:47 AM »
nope, but Endurance now allows sleeping in light or medium armor, and is a prereq for Horiz. walker, and THAT now can grant some flight and ethereal jaunt in addition to dim.door and tremorsense. By Character Level 9. (well, one of those.)
No wonder so many people don't like Pathfinder, or house rule 3.5 stuff back into it.
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When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2010, 05:06:54 AM »
Endurance already didthat in 3.5...
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]