Author Topic: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.  (Read 60571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #320 on: October 08, 2011, 12:45:51 AM »
If that's the logic for making game rule changes, I'm almost afraid to ask what they did to dark elf rangers :p  
Drow have no LA now. The noble ones, which have more powers with no drawbacks, also have no LA, but it's assumed you won't use them.
Actually that's not true. It's now been determined that if you wish to play a drow, or other "monstrous PC" race (aasimar, tiefling, half-giant, etc) that used to have a +1 LA, the character takes a 650 xp penalty. If you wish to allow the drow noble to be played, then it's a 650 xp penalty, and would theoretically be a LA +1. Those are the suggested rules for DMs who want to keep the characters balanced with one another.
I thought that was a new rule introduced in a supplement which is still in beta, and currently only tieflings are penalised?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 12:48:57 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #321 on: October 08, 2011, 12:47:27 AM »
If that's the logic for making game rule changes, I'm almost afraid to ask what they did to dark elf rangers :p 
Drow have no LA now. The noble ones, which have more powers with no drawbacks, also have no LA, but it's assumed you won't use them.
Actually that's not true. It's now been determined that if you wish to play a drow, or other "monstrous PC" race (aasimar, tiefling, half-giant, etc) that used to have a +1 LA, the character takes a 650 xp penalty. If you wish to allow the drow noble to be played, then it's a 650 xp penalty, and would theoretically be a LA +1. Those are the suggested rules for DMs who want to keep the characters balanced with one another.
thought that was a new rule introduced in a supplement, and before that only tieflings were penalised?
That was the original deal, but they've extended it to fit all monstrous races because it didn't make sense to penalize only the tiefling who had enough penalties that it could have escaped that -650 in the first place, due to their -2 CHA.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #322 on: October 08, 2011, 12:52:00 AM »
Wouldn't drow and drow nobles be penalised by the same amount though, despite one being much stronger?
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #323 on: October 08, 2011, 12:53:12 AM »
Wouldn't drow and drow nobles be penalised by the same amount though, despite one being much stronger?
Yeah. Drow are -650 xp and drow nobles are -650 xp + 1 LA. If you allow LA buy-off, then that's 3650 xp that you lose over the course of the game.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

StreamOfTheSky

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #324 on: October 08, 2011, 07:12:58 AM »
Why are the former LA +1's being punished when they sucked terribly in 3E anyway and all the core races got buffed to the point that they're just plain better than them now, exactly?

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #325 on: October 08, 2011, 07:14:41 AM »
Why are the former LA +1's being punished when they sucked terribly in 3E anyway and all the core races got buffed to the point that they're just plain better than them now, exactly?
It's only 650 xp. You can make that up easily. And it's not about punishment, it's about having resistances to energy at 1st level. But it's only suggested. It's not mandatory that you do this. It's just if the DM feels it'll balance the PCs better.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

StreamOfTheSky

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #326 on: October 08, 2011, 07:17:32 AM »
It's still dumb.  Devs "suggesting" a dumb idea gives it credence.

Also, was going to edit my other post but you replied to it so quick...  :)
Just wanted to also add that this kind of reasoning...
Just got a reply at Paizo as well, and a link. http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/rules/archives/halfDragons

[spoiler]
Quote
Correct; a half-dragon with no racial HD would have a breath weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage. Not an awful lot, but this was a purposeful design choice because the flavor of a humanoid half-dragon isn't one that we at Paizo particularly like, and it's one that a LOT of our customers have expressed exasperation with. Primarily because back in the 3.5 days, half-dragon was probably THE most overused template of them all. We (Paizo and our readers) mostly got sick of them, causing the half-dragon to go on the LIST for the last 50 or so print issues of Dungeon. That meant that if someone put a half-dragon into an adventure, they had to have a GREAT reason and GREAT background for that half-dragon.

Half-dragons in Pathfinder are intended to skew toward monsters. Things like the dracolisk would be a perfect example, but other creatures with racial HD work well, particularly animals, vermin, magical beasts, and aberrations.[/spoiler]
Is a great example of why I have come to utterly despise Paizo and their line of thinking / ideas for balancing things.

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #327 on: October 08, 2011, 07:19:36 AM »
The problem is that this had nothing to do with Paizo at the beginning. It was people giving them suggestions saying that the half-dragon was abused in all of their games of 3.5, so Paizo went "Here's the fix" and the people who hated half-dragons rejoiced because now their games wouldn't be flooded with them anymore.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Mooncrow

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 228
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #328 on: October 08, 2011, 07:40:48 AM »
The problem is that this had nothing to do with Paizo at the beginning. It was people giving them suggestions saying that the half-dragon was abused in all of their games of 3.5, so Paizo went "Here's the fix" and the people who hated half-dragons rejoiced because now their games wouldn't be flooded with them anymore.

Reacting against abuse is one thing - nerfing the crap out of something because you don't like the "flavor" of it is another :p 

But, I apologize for de-railing your post - it just struck me when I originally read it that the single most complained about character type had to be "all those fucking Drizzt clones", so it made me a little curious^^

McPoyo

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 3783
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #329 on: October 08, 2011, 04:50:26 PM »
I have had half-dragon used twice by PCs in over 10 years of gaming. Twice. Both times they were horribly underpowered vs the non-dragon pcs. LA 3, even 2, is a pain at low-levels without buyoff.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #330 on: October 08, 2011, 04:56:45 PM »
I have had half-dragon used twice by PCs in over 10 years of gaming. Twice. Both times they were horribly underpowered vs the non-dragon pcs. LA 3, even 2, is a pain at low-levels without buyoff.
Yeah, I too have only ever played a half-dragon once, and I've all but vowed to never play one again without buy-off, so how it's an abused template is beyond me, but that's the argument.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

PsionicRanger

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 12
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #331 on: October 09, 2011, 06:00:11 AM »
Read their response to your question... :twitch

I stand by my spirit of the law vs. letter of the law statement...make it a breath weapon equal to half your HD...done like dinner...

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #332 on: October 09, 2011, 06:44:40 AM »
Read their response to your question... :twitch

I stand by my spirit of the law vs. letter of the law statement...make it a breath weapon equal to half your HD...done like dinner...
I did read it. Problem is I'm not in control of how to deal with the half-dragon. However, that doesn't mean I likely won't be able to negotiate things. Granted I'll likely lose and we'll be going back to the old 3.5 one where I get 6d8 for a breath weapon 1/day. Oh well. Have to see what happens.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

juton

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
  • Jack of all trades, master of nothing.
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #333 on: October 10, 2011, 12:07:16 AM »
Q102

I'm currently an Oracle, and I have a few (probably dumb) questions about the class.
1) How does this class recover spells, does it pray once per day, meditate, or get them back after 8 hours of sleep like a Sorcerer?
2) Oracles don't get eschew materials, but don't need a divine focus to cast spells, is that correct?
3) My Oracle fights with a shield on one arm and a mace, can he cast spells like this or does he have to drop his mace or his shield? My old group ruled that an arm holding a shield can still be used to make somatic movements, but it give a penalty to arcane casters because of its bulk.

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #334 on: October 10, 2011, 12:31:08 AM »
Q102

I'm currently an Oracle, and I have a few (probably dumb) questions about the class.
1) How does this class recover spells, does it pray once per day, meditate, or get them back after 8 hours of sleep like a Sorcerer?
2) Oracles don't get eschew materials, but don't need a divine focus to cast spells, is that correct?
3) My Oracle fights with a shield on one arm and a mace, can he cast spells like this or does he have to drop his mace or his shield? My old group ruled that an arm holding a shield can still be used to make somatic movements, but it give a penalty to arcane casters because of its bulk.
It does seem to say anything RAW, so I'd do it as a sorcerer since you know spells, don't prepare. Your mystery should be what you exchange for the focus since you're basically you're own focus. And clerics can cast with shields so an oracle should be able to as well.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

StreamOfTheSky

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 190
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #335 on: October 10, 2011, 09:58:44 PM »
Q 103

How does Scrying work in PF?  In 3E, the spell had this information:

Quote from: Rules written by competent people
Arcane Material Component
The eye of a hawk, an eagle, or a roc, plus nitric acid, copper, and zinc.

Wizard, Sorcerer, or Bard Focus
A mirror of finely wrought and highly polished silver costing not less than 1,000 gp. The mirror must be at least 2 feet by 4 feet.

Cleric Focus
A holy water font costing not less than 100 gp.

Druid Focus
A natural pool of water.

In the PF version, there is no such information at all.  It just has this in the components line:

Quote
Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)

What do each of the classes need to use the spell?  I'm about to make a high level druid, I'm gonna be pissed if paizo uber nerfed my ability to freely spy on people.  :shakefist

kevin_video

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4833
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #336 on: October 18, 2011, 06:48:29 AM »
Q 104 Got a holy gun PC in the party who just took a level of mysterious stranger gunslinger, and he wants to know what happens when he gains the Gunsmith feat twice? I said nothing because there's not Improved Gunsmith feat, and the two feats don't stack. What can he take? Maybe another crafting feat? Is there anything RAW about this that I'm missing somewhere?

The other option I gave him was to give up one Gunsmith feat and his Amateur Gunslinger feat to get back his detect evil at will, but he doesn't want to lose the bonus grit points he'd gain from Amateur and standard gunslinger class stacking.
I reject your reality, and substitute my own.

When God gives you lemons... it's time to find a new God.

Like D&D Freakouts? Check out this 4th Ed one.

Nagukuk

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 45
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #337 on: October 18, 2011, 11:16:45 PM »
Q105

I have a Character concept I am developing - A follower of the forgotten realms god  - Nobanion (the god of lions and such)  his followers are LG LN NG

My concept is a Lycan - Were Cheetah/Dire - Crusader.  I chose the Cheetah because I Like the look and i want to be a very mobile "tank type" character.


My question is this ... How can i take advantage of the Cheetah base speed while fighting in hybrid form?
I think  remember Lycans do not get the animals speed in hybrid.


EDIT*  Ack, I just saw this was the pathfinder post.


« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 03:05:55 AM by Nagukuk »

kremti

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
    • Email
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #338 on: October 19, 2011, 06:17:05 PM »
A 103
Quote
Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)

Check out this line from here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Components
Quote
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
So, this
Quote
Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)
should be interpreted as:
If you cast this spell as Divine version of the spell, you use a pool of water (Clerics rejoice for having just a pool of water, and Druids rejoice for not having to be 'natural'.
If you cast this spell as Arcane version, then you get a silver mirror worth 1000gp

-K

Kethrian

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #339 on: October 21, 2011, 12:04:59 PM »
A 103
Quote
Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)

Check out this line from here:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Components
Quote
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
So, this
Quote
Components V, S, M/DF (a pool of water), F (a silver mirror worth 1,000 gp)
should be interpreted as:
If you cast this spell as Divine version of the spell, you use a pool of water (Clerics rejoice for having just a pool of water, and Druids rejoice for not having to be 'natural'.
If you cast this spell as Arcane version, then you get a silver mirror worth 1000gp

-K

That doesn't look right.  The F is separated by a comma, not a slash.  The M/DF is where the slash is, so the material component and divine focus are where the difference lies, and you still need the focus either way.