Author Topic: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.  (Read 60543 times)

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Benly

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #140 on: September 09, 2010, 11:00:15 PM »
if finesse would work it would make agile maneuvers obsolete

Actually, since weapon finesse would only work on combat maneuvers when the weapon used to perform the maneuver is a valid target for weapon finesse, agile maneuvers would still do something weapon finesse wouldn't. 
during grappling, bullrushhing, overrunning, etc.

Unarmed strikes are finessable, aren't they? It would still apply to your unarmed maneuvers then, although not to (for example) trips made with a scythe.

Arguably, since CMB adds "attack bonuses from feats" separately from Strength bonus, and Agile Maneuvers replaces the Strength bonus, Weapon Finesse lets you add Dex + Str to CMB and having both would let you add Dex twice.


Ed-Zero

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #142 on: September 10, 2010, 04:37:00 AM »
Q39: Does the Eidolon get it's strength bonus using it's claws? The text doesn't say that it does but I'm inclined to think that it does. The argument that it doesn't is Bite which says that if you choose Bite twice, you now deal 1.5x your strength modifier.. So unless you already deal your strength modifier normally, it just gets upgraded from 1x to 1.5x, which looks correct to me. If that was the case then you'd do additional damage on your claws even though it says you don't get it.... ???

Nevermind, it's a creature, so the damage it does is normal (damage+str) but what I mentioned was just a upgrade, that's all. (Should've updated sooner)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 04:01:33 PM by Ed-Zero »

vrischika111

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #143 on: September 10, 2010, 08:32:10 AM »
if finesse would work it would make agile maneuvers obsolete

Actually, since weapon finesse would only work on combat maneuvers when the weapon used to perform the maneuver is a valid target for weapon finesse, agile maneuvers would still do something weapon finesse wouldn't. 
during grappling, bullrushhing, overrunning, etc.

from SRD:
Attack rolls : "you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus."
Attack Bonus : "Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier"
Weapon finesse : " you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. "
CMB : "Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier"
Combat manoeuvre : "When you attempt to perform a combat manoeuvre, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus"

so it's a NO.
Do it. Or don't do it. But never regret !

Benly

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #144 on: September 10, 2010, 08:42:12 AM »

from SRD:
Attack rolls : "you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus."
Attack Bonus : "Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier"
Weapon finesse : " you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. "
CMB : "Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier"
Combat manoeuvre : "When you attempt to perform a combat manoeuvre, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus"

so it's a NO.

You left out the next sentence of the Combat Maneuver entry.

"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects."

As Weapon Finesse is a feat granting a bonus to your attack rolls, I think it's a reasonable reading to add the Weapon Finesse bonus under that clause.

McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #145 on: September 10, 2010, 12:12:20 PM »
I've always interpreted str or dex as part of the base roll, not a bonus to attack rolls, beecause of how the combat sections describe it. Also, because you can have a penalty.

And even for unarmed, there's a limited number where you make an attack someone in the process: disarm, trip, sunder, some grapple. Bullrush, overrun, dirty trick, drag, etc don't involve you attacking someone.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

vrischika111

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #146 on: September 10, 2010, 01:23:14 PM »

from SRD:
...
Weapon finesse : " you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. "
...
so it's a NO.

You left out the next sentence of the Combat Maneuver entry.

"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects."

As Weapon Finesse is a feat granting a bonus to your attack rolls, I think it's a reasonable reading to add the Weapon Finesse bonus under that clause.

where does weapon finesse grant a bonus ??? read the definition I copied. it does not grant any bonus. it lets you use one value instead of another... in a explicit situation
Do it. Or don't do it. But never regret !

McPoyo

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #147 on: September 10, 2010, 01:29:46 PM »
Also, doublecheck the PF FAQ. I believe Bulhman specifically said it doesn't work for the same reason.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Benly

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #148 on: September 10, 2010, 06:07:01 PM »
Also, doublecheck the PF FAQ. I believe Bulhman specifically said it doesn't work for the same reason.

Ah, well, that clarifies that then. :)

Praef

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #149 on: September 12, 2010, 07:23:15 PM »
Q40

Has it already been pointed out that the monk has a full BAB according to the table (check out flurry of blows)?

Bryan_0697

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #150 on: September 12, 2010, 07:31:53 PM »
A 40
Read the Flurry of blows info. It says that you use your monk level as your BAB for Flurry of blows.

SRD "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level."

Praef

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #151 on: September 12, 2010, 09:36:56 PM »
what? that is both sucky, and awesome!  I'm not sure why.  must be the coffee.

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #152 on: September 12, 2010, 09:43:30 PM »
Q41: How many tiers does the PF Bard drop compared to the 3.5e Bard?

Glutton

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #153 on: September 13, 2010, 02:06:46 AM »
drop? It's better.

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #154 on: September 13, 2010, 02:38:20 AM »
drop? It's better.
-Bardic music usage cut to rounds/day instead of uses/day.
-Fascinate saving throw cut from Perform check result to 10+1/2 level+Charisma, still maintains 24 hour immunity clause.
-Inspire effect durations cut from 5 rounds after the performance ends to 0.

No number of goodies can offset these 3 nerfs.

juton

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #155 on: September 13, 2010, 02:42:54 AM »
The whole uses/day rounds per day always truck me as an odd disparagement to make, in most situations you'll only want the music for a few rounds so in total you get more uses out of it. I suppose your mileage may vary. The real kick in the Bard's pants is if you're playing pathfinder there isn't the raft load of splat book support for your character, all the ACFs in the APG pale in comparison to things like the sublime chord. In 3.5 Bards are Tier 3 if you have splat books, they're Tier 4 without, Bards are only in Tier 4 in Pathfinder because they lack all those splat book options. If you allow a mixing of 3.5 and Pathfinder then the Bard goes back to Tier 3.

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #156 on: September 13, 2010, 02:52:09 AM »
The whole uses/day rounds per day always truck me as an odd disparagement to make, in most situations you'll only want the music for a few rounds so in total you get more uses out of it. I suppose your mileage may vary. The real kick in the Bard's pants is if you're playing pathfinder there isn't the raft load of splat book support for your character, all the ACFs in the APG pale in comparison to things like the sublime chord. In 3.5 Bards are Tier 3 if you have splat books, they're Tier 4 without, Bards are only in Tier 4 in Pathfinder because they lack all those splat book options. If you allow a mixing of 3.5 and Pathfinder then the Bard goes back to Tier 3.
If it's 3 rounds per encounter that you use 1 bardic music effect, then you have a net loss on how much music you can put out if your level is higher than your Charisma modifier.  If you want to put out 2 music effects (Inspire Greatness is pretty handy IMO, nevermind Inspire Heroics), then you're SOL in Pathfinder.

I suppose it wouldn't be nearly as bad of a thing if the songs still lingered around after the bard stopped performing to cast spells/use items or if the bard was taken out of the fight somehow, but they don't.  That strikes me as the real nerf.

juton

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #157 on: September 13, 2010, 03:48:20 AM »
I suppose it wouldn't be nearly as bad of a thing if the songs still lingered around after the bard stopped performing to cast spells/use items or if the bard was taken out of the fight somehow, but they don't.  That strikes me as the real nerf.

Bards can sustain a performance with a free action, so they can move around and attack while singing after the first round that's something. That probably will burn through rounds per day though. They can start a Bardic music as a move then swift action at 7th then 13th level. Really though I think Bards need more than that to be effective.

juton

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #158 on: September 20, 2010, 01:20:06 AM »
Q42

The Lore Oracle gets an ability that reads:
Quote
Arcane Archivist (Su): Your experience with lore-filled tomes has granted you the ability to cast arcane spells as if they were on your spell list. Once per day, you can cast a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were on your list of spells known. The spell consumes a spell slot one level higher than the level of the spell. You must have a spellbook containing the spell to cast it in this way, and the spell is erased when you complete the casting. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.

Assuming full access to 3.5 material is there a way that I can use this ability and not lose the spell from my spell book? I'm thinking some way to copy the spell cheaply or make the book immune to erasure are the obvious routes, but I can't figure out how to go about it.


Benly

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Re: [PATHFINDER] Ask a simple question, get a silly- I mean, simple answer.
« Reply #159 on: September 20, 2010, 01:54:00 AM »
Q42

The Lore Oracle gets an ability that reads:
Quote
Arcane Archivist (Su): Your experience with lore-filled tomes has granted you the ability to cast arcane spells as if they were on your spell list. Once per day, you can cast a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were on your list of spells known. The spell consumes a spell slot one level higher than the level of the spell. You must have a spellbook containing the spell to cast it in this way, and the spell is erased when you complete the casting. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.

Assuming full access to 3.5 material is there a way that I can use this ability and not lose the spell from my spell book? I'm thinking some way to copy the spell cheaply or make the book immune to erasure are the obvious routes, but I can't figure out how to go about it.



A42

Keep two spellbooks, a normal one and a Blessed Book. Use the Blessed Book for your castings, then recopy the spell into your Blessed Book again at no cost. No need to grandfather in non-PF material, even. An extremely literal reading of the Blessed Book's rules text may require a wizard to do the recopying for you, however.