Author Topic: Blasting with a cleric?  (Read 6561 times)

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zavule

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Blasting with a cleric?
« on: February 03, 2010, 12:55:20 AM »
I have a dilemma.  My current group consists of the following:  A sorcerer (the poor girl hasn't played much and wants something simple.  I'll be helping her build something effective), a crusader (I finally convinced him to try Tome of Battle), A war blade (a minmaxer like me), a wizard/incantatar (Yeah.  He's overpowered, abuses spells and the leadership feat, and has a habit of wrecking games), an oppositional DM who hates new things (odd that he allowed the wizard, even though I told him what would happen), and me.  I'm looking at being a cleric, an artificer, or an archivist.  Because of campaign fluff, the only gods open at the moment are Pelor, Heironeous, or St. Cuthbert.  I'm sick to death of playing the buffer (I did that the last game for 13 some levels) and we have melee pretty well sewn up because of the two Tome of Battle characters.  We start at level 7 and banned material so far is the Book of Exalted Deeds, because the DM is afraid of the vow of poverty.  I know, I know.  Nobody listens to me.  I have a blastificer almost finished, but I was wondering if there was anything wonderfully crazy I could pull off with a cleric or an archivist and making things explode.  I would normally go archivist and stock up on some druid spells, but he's ruled out any scrolls except cleric scrolls.  I've checked around a bit, and nothing jumps out so far with the limitations I've been saddled with.  And so, I turn to the optimization boards because quite frankly the regulars here are a hell of a lot better at this than I am.
DM: The iron door is enchanted with a powerful anti-magic barrier.
Zavy: The door itself?
DM: Yes.
Zavy: I get acid flasks and a pry bar.  I just found myself a new tower shield.

Phoenix00

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 01:04:42 AM »
What level are you playing?

zavule

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 01:22:35 AM »
Just realized that was a block of text...  We start at level 7.
DM: The iron door is enchanted with a powerful anti-magic barrier.
Zavy: The door itself?
DM: Yes.
Zavy: I get acid flasks and a pry bar.  I just found myself a new tower shield.

Akalsaris

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 01:32:52 AM »
Well, based on the limited deities allowed and no scrolls permitted, I'd say the archivist is pretty well screwed out of his main gimmick, especially since it sounds like the DM won't let you pull spells from the PrC spell lists like trapsmith and the like.  So I'd either go cleric, artificer, or a more blasting-focused class like evoker.  We've got a cleric blaster in a game I play with the Storm and Weather domains, and it's easily doable, just more difficult with those limited deities.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 01:42:24 AM »
The Sun domain is decent, and Pelor has that. Flame Strike and Fire Seeds. You'll get Flame Strike at 9th. Take Divine Metamagic (Empower/Maximize/Twin/Energy Admixture/whatever), and go to town. The holly berry bombs from Fire Seeds can be particularly insane, since you can precast a bunch of them (the duration is "until used") and then detonate them all at once. Stick them in a basket, and work out a fun way to deliver it. ;)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 01:44:17 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Unbeliever

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 01:53:41 AM »
As already noted, clerics have a fair bit of blasting and DMM just makes it better.

There's that Blackfire spell, cleric 3 in SpC that is pretty good.  I kind of like the ones that you can use throughout a combat especially if you DMM them. 

There's also the lightning-esque PrC from Stormwrack, or you could go all Born of Three Thunders so long as you can persist a spell that stops you from being dazed.  I know there's Favor of the Martyr, but that's on the Paladin list.  There's bound to be some clericy one. 

What about just playing a druid?  They've got tons of blasting, don't they?  Maybe you could find something worthwhile to ditch your animal companion for, and if you want, you could wildshape into a bird (or a dragon ...) and stay out of harm's way, which allows you to commit more resources to the blasting.  You'd then have to dip into Sacred Exorcist to get turn undead to fuel DMM, but that's eminently doable. 

bearsarebrown

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 01:54:22 AM »
Fire Seeds, as mentioned, is great blasting. Pass them out to summoned Air Elementals which you fuel from the reserve feat.

Endarire

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 02:24:40 AM »
Use summon monster for air elementals.  Take the feat Rashemi Elemental Summoning and use air elementals' cones of cold.
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

snakeman830

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 12:38:14 PM »
There's also the lightning-esque PrC from Stormwrack 
Stormcaster is a poor choice for Cleric (I know, I looked at it myself).  Just qualifying requires jumping through some hoops to get the prerequisite spells.  That and Clerics have very few spells that qualify for the caster level boost (barring domain spells that you only get one of each day).
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

fun_at_funerals

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 01:47:51 PM »
Shadowcrafting Clerics, perhaps? Would work better on an Archivist though. Besides, DMM is easily gained through a single level of Sacred Exorcist anyway. I believe there's a build for both classes in the ScM handbook.

Shadowcraft Mages make better blasters. Just persist a bunch of spells that give you blasting ability (Lightning Ring, Storm Rage, Glorious Master of the Elements) and persist them. Heck, persist a Sphere of Ultimate Destruction while you're at it. Shadowcraft Mage even extends all your Illusions for free making them awesome for spells that deal damage over time (a double extended Lingering Flame would deal 15d6 damage for 9 rounds, add in a Solid Fog spell and watch whatever's caught in there slowly burn). Cast it in a Planar Bubble that emmulates the Plane of Shadow and they're maximized for free.

As for Born of Three Thunders without the daze, just take a level of prestige paladin and you've got access to the spell list and Favor of the Martyr. Again, no problem if you go Archivist.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 02:04:29 PM »
Shadowcrafting Clerics, perhaps? Would work better on an Archivist though. Besides, DMM is easily gained through a single level of Sacred Exorcist anyway. I believe there's a build for both classes in the ScM handbook.
Why do you say it would work better on an archivist? The spontaneous domain casting variant applied to the Illusion domain makes cleric a better choice, I'd argue. You can prep spells that might come in handy in your spell slots, and then spontaneously replace them with Shadow Illusions if you don't need them. I'm playing a cleric/SCM and this lets me run around with Desecrate and Animate Dead prepared, just in case we "find" a good corpse to animate, but I can still use those slots to "blast" with (or do BFC, etc) if I need to. Here is a link to the character sheet, if you're interested.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Dark_Juggernaut

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 02:10:17 PM »
First find out if your DM even allows Warlocks(Complete Arcane) or Dragonfire Adepts(Dragon Magic), then ask about Eldritch Disciple(Complete Mage) which advances both a divine and an invocing caster class.

I personally am working on a Dragonfire Adept/Cleric/Eldritch Disciple.  Try and talk your DM into letting Practiced Spellcaster advance Eldritch Blast/Adept breath dice and you won't even fall behind on an infinite source of nuking.  The breath has a save but isn't a spell-like ability (no arcane failure, no spell resistance, not considered casting in combat).  The blast is a ranged touch you can use turning to apply healing to (Healing Chain/Doom anyone?) but will behave like a spell in combat, and needs vitriolic blast to avoid SR.

The adept can also freely identify magic items with no cost...at all.  Warlocks arguably get some better invocations otherwise, but they don't get their cone blast shape until later.

If you could use a favored soul(Complete Divine) to get into eldritch disciple then use that with the warlock choice instead, so you can focus on charisma all the way.  Unfortunately they don't turn undead naturally so it's your DMs call on that one.

Anyways, there's some food for thought.  Infinite invocing and clerical whatnot to spare on ressing, healing, divining or more blasting.

Phirsole

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 02:18:57 PM »
Won't the wiz/incantatrix and the newbie Sor do a lot of blasting? If yes, I'd avoid getting on a competition road with a cleric. On the long run, direct blasters start lagging.

Otherwise, think about a cleric with less impact per round, but a long blasting endurance:
Fiery burst (reserve feat from Complete Mage)

You'll do a 4d6 blast every round in 30' (5' spread) for as long as you have a 4th level fire spell prepared. Sun domain gives you fire shield. Scour the SC for fire spells.

Ask your DM, if he allows to change "Ice Axe" (3rd) to "Flame Club" for a priest of Pelor and go RSoP for healing, martial weapons, and undead nuking.

If you really want to go on casting endurance, think about taking RSoP with Sacred Healing (CD version) - it's enormous if you give fasthealing 3 for CHA+1 rds after every fight at 7th level. My RSoP may patch the party for 144 HP EACH on turn attempts alone.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 02:21:27 PM by Phirsole »

fun_at_funerals

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 02:31:58 PM »
Why do you say it would work better on an archivist? The spontaneous domain casting variant applied to the Illusion domain makes cleric a better choice, I'd argue. You can prep spells that might come in handy in your spell slots, and then spontaneously replace them with Shadow Illusions if you don't need them. I'm playing a cleric/SCM and this lets me run around with Desecrate and Animate Dead prepared, just in case we "find" a good corpse to animate, but I can still use those slots to "blast" with (or do BFC, etc) if I need to. Here is a link to the character sheet, if you're interested.

Oh hey, I wasn't acquainted with the Spontaneous Domian Variant. Where is that located exactly? I was thinking that Archivists don't suffer the restriction of only being able to cast domain spells from domain slots. Didn't know there was a variant that allowed one to surpass that.

I was also thinking that Archivists can learn Arcane Spellsurge which works well with blasting assuming you have a decent blast spell with a full round casting time like Channeled Sound Blast (which can be Shadow Illusion'ed).
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2010, 02:59:39 PM »
Why do you say it would work better on an archivist? The spontaneous domain casting variant applied to the Illusion domain makes cleric a better choice, I'd argue. You can prep spells that might come in handy in your spell slots, and then spontaneously replace them with Shadow Illusions if you don't need them. I'm playing a cleric/SCM and this lets me run around with Desecrate and Animate Dead prepared, just in case we "find" a good corpse to animate, but I can still use those slots to "blast" with (or do BFC, etc) if I need to. Here is a link to the character sheet, if you're interested.

Oh hey, I wasn't acquainted with the Spontaneous Domian Variant. Where is that located exactly? I was thinking that Archivists don't suffer the restriction of only being able to cast domain spells from domain slots. Didn't know there was a variant that allowed one to surpass that.
PHB2 or DMG2. I think the first one. You give up spontaneous cures/inflicts to instead spontaneously cast from one of your domains.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

zavule

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2010, 03:39:00 PM »
So far, you folks have been a ton of help.  I'll see if my DM will allow a shadow craft cleric.  Otherwise, I might go with the sun domain.  I suppose I could try battlefield control or debuffing too.  Maybe take divine magician and load up on dmm chained enervation...
DM: The iron door is enchanted with a powerful anti-magic barrier.
Zavy: The door itself?
DM: Yes.
Zavy: I get acid flasks and a pry bar.  I just found myself a new tower shield.

Tshern

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2010, 09:21:19 PM »
When you acquire fifth level spells, look at Streamers. It's in Shining South. Also, it's ridiculous.

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Phoenix00

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 12:16:19 AM »
When you acquire fifth level spells, look at Streamers. It's in Shining South. Also, it's ridiculous.
Awesome spell, for the people who don't know.  You create an magical streamer, 1 at cl9, 2 at cl12, 3 at cl15, max of 4 at cl18.  You target the streamers at one or multiple enemies.  Each time the enemy performs any type of action the streamer attacks (for the streamer has readied an attack against any action) he takes 5d10 damage.  This continues for 1/rounds a level.  Now the streamers can be destroyed but if there target tries to destroy them they get to attack first since they have readied an action and thus get to attack first.  Furthermore they can only be attacked by magic weapons, not by magic.  Finally this is a spellcaster bane for reread the concentration skill

Concentration
Make a check of 10+Damage Dealt when
Quote
10 + damage dealt     Damaged during the action.2
Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 standard action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action)
Thus if you used a rod of maximized with the streamer spell and the spellcasting target tries to
  • cast a spell than the spellcasting target must make a concentration check of dc 60 or he lose the spell and he takes 50 damage. 
  • moves the streamer follows him as well as zaps him 50 damage.
  • cast a spell with a swift/immediate casting time the streamer zaps him 50 damage.
  • tries to talk to his allies telling them about the streamers, the streamer zaps him 50 damage
  • Attack the streamer with a magic weapon the streamer zaps him for 50 damage  and he is unlikely to destroy more than 2 because of low bab.  He can't destroy the streamer with magic only magic weapons.
Oh Streamers are even more awesome when used with invisible spell.  The target doesn't even get to see the streamers before he takes actions (and those actions have a good chance of killing him).  Only way the target can see the streamers if he has detect magic, see
invisibility, or true seeing up.

snakeman830

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 01:32:31 AM »
When you acquire fifth level spells, look at Streamers. It's in Shining South. Also, it's ridiculous.
Awesome spell, for the people who don't know.  You create an magical streamer, 1 at cl9, 2 at cl12, 3 at cl15, max of 4 at cl18.  You target the streamers at one or multiple enemies.  Each time the enemy performs any type of action the streamer attacks (for the streamer has readied an attack against any action) he takes 5d10 damage.  This continues for 1/rounds a level.  Now the streamers can be destroyed but if there target tries to destroy them they get to attack first since they have readied an action and thus get to attack first.  Furthermore they can only be attacked by magic weapons, not by magic.  Finally this is a spellcaster bane for reread the concentration skill

Concentration
Make a check of 10+Damage Dealt when
Quote
10 + damage dealt     Damaged during the action.2
Such as during the casting of a spell with a casting time of 1 round or more, or the execution of an activity that takes more than a single full-round action (such as Disable Device). Also, damage stemming from an attack of opportunity or readied attack made in response to the spell being cast (for spells with a casting time of 1 standard action) or the action being taken (for activities requiring no more than a full-round action)
Thus if you used a rod of maximized with the streamer spell and the spellcasting target tries to
  • cast a spell than the spellcasting target must make a concentration check of dc 60 or he lose the spell and he takes 50 damage. 
  • moves the streamer follows him as well as zaps him 50 damage.
  • cast a spell with a swift/immediate casting time the streamer zaps him 50 damage.
  • tries to talk to his allies telling them about the streamers, the streamer zaps him 50 damage
  • Attack the streamer with a magic weapon the streamer zaps him for 50 damage  and he is unlikely to destroy more than 2 because of low bab.  He can't destroy the streamer with magic only magic weapons.
Oh Streamers are even more awesome when used with invisible spell.  The target doesn't even get to see the streamers before he takes actions (and those actions have a good chance of killing him).  Only way the target can see the streamers if he has detect magic, see
invisibility, or true seeing up.
That's nasty.  I'll have to remember this spell for my Clerics.  And Wizards and Sorcerers.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 01:34:59 AM by snakeman830 »
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

Quotes:[spoiler]
By yes, she means no.
That explains so much about my life.
hiicantcomeupwithacharacterthatisntaghostwhyisthatamijustretardedorsomething
Why would you even do this? It hurts my eyes and looks like you ate your keyboard before suffering an attack of explosive diarrhea.
[/spoiler]

If using Genesis to hide your phylactry, set it at -300 degrees farenheit.  See how do-gooders fare with a liquid atmosphere.

Nunkuruji

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Re: Blasting with a cleric?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 01:37:01 AM »
Dragonborn Cleric with the breath weapon attribute