Dirty Trick Handbook II, or how to force your DM to attack you without a save.

[Kuroimaken]

The idea behind this thread is to compile the really dirty tricks (as well as the more practical, usable, or really AWESOME tricks) the various combinations D&D has to offer. Go nuts, and kick reason in them!

EDIT: Incidentally, PlzBreakMyCampaign has been working on ways to stop the silliness behind each of these. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3288.0

[NiteCyper]

This isn't a handbook, this is a crock-pot of random ideas.

addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:23, you need someone to actually compile these.

addendum 2: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:25, I don't appreciate threads that ask for a call in of ideas that clutter the forum.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7053.0 Here's some. Iron Heart Surge, "Save" game mechanic, Diplomancy, etc.

addendum 3: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:27, blatant, flagrant Pun-Pun.

[Kuroimaken]

This is a continuation of the original dirty trick handbook thread, Nite.

[Phaenix]

This isn't a handbook, this is a crock-pot of random ideas.

addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:23, you need someone to actually compile these.

addendum 2: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:25, I don't appreciate threads that ask for a call in of ideas that clutter the forum.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7053.0 Here's some. Iron Heart Surge, "Save" game mechanic, Diplomancy, etc.

addendum 3: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 18:27, blatant, flagrant Pun-Pun.

Seriously, I don't think you have a leg to stand on when you complain about "clutter." Lose the addenda, please.

And, to add something useful to the thread (and by request): Energy Transformation Field (SpC 80) does not specify what spells may be linked to the field. Specifically, it does not require you to cast the spell, or indeed even know it or have it on your list to be able to link it to the field. This opens up several possibilities:

1. Linking a 9th-level spell when you cast ETF as a 13th level wizard
2. Linking divine spells into the field
3. Linking EPIC spells into the field (only ones that don't have an XP or material component). Pre-epic even.
4. DM-inflicted head injuries

[Kal Zakath]

Seriously, I don't think you have a leg to stand on when you complain about "clutter." Lose the addenda, please.

And, to add something useful to the thread (and by request): Energy Transformation Field (SpC 80) does not specify what spells may be linked to the field. Specifically, it does not require you to cast the spell, or indeed even know it or have it on your list to be able to link it to the field. This opens up several possibilities:

1. Linking a 9th-level spell when you cast ETF as a 13th level wizard
2. Linking divine spells into the field
3. Linking EPIC spells into the field (only ones that don't have an XP or material component). Pre-epic even.
4. DM-inflicted head injuries

So you could tie a Miracle spell to the ETF, that when the field attains 9spell levels it then casts miracle somwhere within its range, to cast ETF a 7th level arcane spell. I believe you may have to pay the XP cost, but given enough time you and Xp you could cover the Material plane (or any non-infinite plane) with the transformation fields, and thus control much of the spellcasting in the world.

Another possible use would be to have ETF cast on a flying airship. With leadership, have your low level followers gain levels in spellcasting classes (adept would do even) and then have them repeatedly cast spells into the field.

[NiteCyper]

re: clutter: these are posts, not an essay. My composition-writing skills take a hit. The difference being that I don't parade a plate filled with delicious, low-class comfort-food as a 4-star entrée, but that doesn't obsolete it as delicious food.

addendum 2: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 20:49, when I feel like making a a "4-star entrée" (handbook), I put my all into it.

addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 20:48, re: ideas: if it's a continuation of the last thread, am I disqualified for saying stuff already said in the last thread? Also, why does it need a new thread?

addendum 3: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 21:28, post-redeeming idea: Shambler/Shambling Mound + Weapon of Shocking Burst = inf. CON. Old trick, but again, I still don't know if we're allowed or not allowed to say the same crap. [blatant]What would make it clear is if a compilation of all previous ideas was placed as the OPost[/blatant].

[Kal Zakath]

I agree that the Dirty trick handbook does not follow the structure of other such guides on this site that does not mean that it is somehow less relevant. Also, given that this is perhaps not a finished handbook perhaps it is a discussion for Dirty tricks imagined by the members of this board with the intent to create a more complete work in the future. The Dirty Trick handbook requires more explanation than the standard handbook as the methods therein are far more dastardly, underhanded, and often involve greater knowledge of the game and its mechanics in order to understand. As such, it is not polite to post in anothers thread about how that topic is somehow wrong, or incorrect, unless such post violates the rules of the board, like a homebrew Class posted here for merits of creation rather than optimization opportunities. If you do not like the subject of the post, don't post in the thread.

/rant

I personally approve of the continuation of this topic. (in case that wasn't apparent)

[Phaenix]

So you could tie a Miracle spell to the ETF, that when the field attains 9spell levels it then casts miracle somwhere within its range, to cast ETF a 7th level arcane spell. I believe you may have to pay the XP cost, but given enough time you and Xp you could cover the Material plane (or any non-infinite plane) with the transformation fields, and thus control much of the spellcasting in the world.

Another possible use would be to have ETF cast on a flying airship. With leadership, have your low level followers gain levels in spellcasting classes (adept would do even) and then have them repeatedly cast spells into the field.

Yet another part of the spell that isn't properly explained... how do you decide variables that are usually selected at the time of casting? it covers targets (whoever is closest), but what about spells that have a variety of effects, like Summoning spells or Holy Star or Miracle? Who decides what it does from round to round?

Also, even using their example, SMIV, the spell can be b0rked. Just have it summon something with some SLAs or Supernatural Abilities, and have the summons keep pumping the ETF up for more monsters.

re: clutter: these are posts, not an essay.

Precisely. These are posts that other people have to read. This forum is not your notebook. Try to write so that others can understand you.

Also, why does it need a new thread?

The post count on the last thread was approaching 1000. The forum software apparently has some difficulty with threads of that length. That's why the Ask a Simple Question thread has had so many iterations.

[NiteCyper]

1. I still don't know why you need a second thread.

2. "The Dirty Trick handbook requires more explanation than the standard handbook as" it's a very general topic.

3. If you want to get rulesy, wouldn't this topic be better put at http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?board=10.0? However, I don't mind it because this topic is probably the most popular.

4. re: disapproval: I would've posted another idea in my last post to make my post worthwile topic-wise, but point 1 was pending.

5. "These are posts that other people have to read. This forum is not your notebook. Try to write so that others can understand you." It's not clear what's being implied; are you arguing my analogy? I have a love/hate relationship with analogies.

addendum: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 21:15, your implication that I write in a manner that lacks concern for others' ability to comprehend my comments is irksome. Evidence to the contrary: e.g. references I have for my posts.

re: forum is not a notebook: this is paradoxical to the existence of this thread acting as a "notebook" as I would continually add ideas as this thread would hope to do, yet you are against it.

addendum 2: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 21:20, my desire: Please compile the information as if it were a conventional hand-book.

addendum 3: -8 GMT, 31-01-2010, 21:27, obligatory, post-redeeming idea: Trickery Devotion for infinite items (JanusJones' Double Trouble: Trickery Devotion Optimization).
re: repetition: addendum 3, post #6.

[Lycanthromancer]

Off-topic:[spoiler]

<Tons of cluttering addenda.>

Please stop. You're going to make it to where nobody reads your posts anymore. If you have to, append your posts with [edit] and [edit #2] and so on. Or please just write most of what you need to the first time.

Because, really, I've only started reading your posts on this particular thread, and it's already getting annoying enough that I'm skipping over your posts because annoying addenda are annoying. [/meme]

Now, I suggest that the OP start up another thread, because this one has not only been derailed, but de-monorailed, to the point where it crashed into the teacup ride and took out most of the pirates in the Caribbean.[/spoiler]

[Kuroimaken]

To clarify, kids: this is a continuation of the previous thread mostly because the other hit 50 pages and will therefore be locked soon.

Secondly: insofar as thread derailing has gone, I figure Nite got the picture already. He's willing to contribute now. Sarcastically or not.

Thirdly: the idea behind the thread is to compile a number of dastardly tricks. Whether it's called a handbook or a thread and structured like a handbook or not is entirely irrelevant to the thread in question.

Now, please move on. Productively. Don't make me sic the 10th Vongola on you people.

[TheWordSlinger]

I'll just leave this here:
Do we have a dirty trick handbook?

[Kuroimaken]

As a matter of fact, we do, and like I mentioned before, it's nearing 50 pages. 

[TheWordSlinger]

As a matter of fact, we do, and like I mentioned before, it's nearing 50 pages. 

Psst, Kuroimaken, I know that. In fact, the sentence you're referencing is both the title of that topic and a hyperlink to that topic.

[Kuroimaken]

Sorry, had my sarcasm mode turned off. 

[Phaenix]

OK, next up... Breaking the Binder!

So, there has been some abuse of the Binder class using Bloodlines, since Binders gain most of their abilities based on their "Effective Binder Level," which is advanced by the Binder Class, a handful of Prestige classes, and... Bloodlines.

This is nothing new, and several builds have attempted to optimize EBL. Some can be found at your local Consolidated Binder Handbook.

But... several of the Epic Binder Feats are also based off of EBL. Where does that leave us? In awesome land. See, many of the Epic Binder Feats require EBL 21. So, getting EBL 21 before ECL 21 means getting Epic feats early. Specifically, Bind Additional Vestige:

Bind Additional Vestige [Epic]
You can bind an additional nonepic vestige.
Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; effective binder level 21st.
Benefit: You can bind an additional vestige.
Normal: The number of nonepic vestiges you can bind simultaneously is limited by your class level.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take the feat, you can add one to the maximum number of nonepic vestiges you can bind simultaneously.

Binder 2/Bloodline 1/Binder +2/Bloodline +1/SoD 1/KoSS 1/Bloodline +1/Legacy Champion 6 (adv. Binder 1, KotSS 1, SoD 3)/Uncanny Trickster 3 (Adv. Binder 1, SoD 1) hits EBL 21 by level 13. That means your level 15 and 18 feat are going to be Bind Additional Vestige. And you can go ahead and DCFS some of those not-so-great feats you get from Legacy Champion and your Bloodline to more interesting Epic Binder Feats.

If I were playing this build, I'd lay out my feats something like this:
1                           Improved Binding [DCFS after level 13 -> Bind Additional Vestige]
Human Bonus         Expel Vestige
(lv. 2) Celestial Bl   Alertness [DCFS after level 13 -> Epic Expel Vestige]
3                           Weapon Focus (Any) [required for KoSS]
(lv 5) Binder 4        Ignore Special Requirements
6                           Rapid Pact Making
9                           Knowledge Devotion (Great for a Dantalion-centric build)
12                         Favored Vestige (Dantalion)
(lv 13) Binder 8      Rapid Recovery (Dantalion)
(lv 14) Bloodline     Improved Initiative
15                         Bind Additional Vestige
15 (Leg. Champ.)   Bonus Legacy Feat [DCFS -> Epic Rapid Pact Making]
16 (Leg. Champ.)   Bonus Legacy Feat [DCFS -> Epic Rapid Recovery (Dantalion)]
18                         Bind Additional Vestige

This gets you:
 7 Vestiges at a time - that's about 25-30 class features right there.
EBL 39 (40 with Dantalion)
The ability to change your bound vestiges (except for Dantalion) with a couple minutes of downtime as often as you'd like. And select them with impunity.
Pact Augmentation 4 (which also gets reset every time you bind) - 20 Temp HP is a nice little rider to selecting new class abilities, esp. with 17 HD.
Knowledge Devotion with +8 to all knowledge checks, Collector of Stories, and 14 Knowledge rerolls/day. Most PrC skill pre-reqs are Knowledges.
Swift-action Awe of Dantalion (aka "Can't touch this") every 3 rounds
Move-action Teleport up to 200 ft. 40/day, Also on a 3 round cooldown. Use Malphas' Bird or Cabiri's Eye to see where you want to go.
Oh yeah... An Item of Legacy with fucking Cunning. Who cares what else is on there? Get some CLW. Make it out of a Tooth of Savnok!

Using Partial Saves & BAB:
BAB: 4.5 + .75 + 1 + 4.5 + 2.25 = +13/+8/+3
Fort: 5.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 +2 +1 = 13
Ref: 2.3 + .3 + .3 +2 + 3 = 8
Will: 5.5 + 2.5 + .3 + 5 +1 = 14

The best part is that you have exactly 1 feat tied up in pre-reqs, so you can customize to your heart's content. And you can use the later classes to advance KoSS over SoD, if you like those class features better. You need Human or 12 int to meet skill prereqs, but with the bare minimum, pretty much all your skill points are spoken for before you hit Uncanny Trickster. Any skill points resulting from higher INT should probably go into getting a few ranks in cross-class Knowledges if you're going the Knowledge Devotion route.

Also, the race isn't entirely set. I used Human for the bonus feat and extra skills, but go ahead and make an Unseelie Fey Karsite or an Unseelie Fey Phrenic Human with Magic in the Blood. WTF do I care? You already have too many abilities to keep track of. (You do need to be human, half-human, or have the human subtype to get into SoD, though.)

How Bloodlines work:
[spoiler]I use the interpretation of Bloodlines that they advance any class feature that is based on class level, except for those specifically called out as not advancing (spellcasting progression). That is, I believe a Fighter 4/Bloodline 2 has 4 bonus fighter feats, since Bonus Feats is a class feature that progresses based on class level, and is thus advanced by Bloodlines. In the case of the Binder, they gain all of their class abilities (Soul Binding, Suppress Sign, Bonus Feats, Pact Augmentation, and Soul Guardian) by level 6, so Bloodlines advance any of those they have obtained. Therefore, Binder 6/Bloodline 3 gets Slippery Mind, as that is part of the advancement for the Soul Guardian

[Anklebite]

excellent find good sir, now where did I put that fu...?

[Phaenix]

Thanks. I've been mulling over this one for a while. It gets pretty strong, but I think as long as you focus more on versatility than raw power (i.e., binding 30 vestiges at once), it's still pretty playable. I wouldn't think it would be out of place in a party with a Druid/Planar Shepherd and a Wizard/Incantatrix, for example.

[Agita]

Not sure this works. See the answer I posted in the Binder Handbook.

[Phaenix]

OK, I responded there. I think we can continue the discussion in the Handbook.