Author Topic: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping  (Read 1939 times)

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CannibalSmith

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Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« on: June 14, 2008, 02:12:05 AM »
I posted a couple of questions in the simple questions thread, but nobody did answer. I guess, they're not simple. So I'm reposting them in their own thread.

Q71: If I overlap two Entangle spells, do the victims have to save twice every round? What about Walls of Fire? Vortex of Teeth? Grease? Hold Person? Does the victim have to get two "act normally" results in row on Insanity table to act normally of he's affected by two overlapping Insanity spells? Do multiple Explosive Runes spells on the same object stack?

Quote from: SRD
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.
Which is perfectly understandable with spells as simple as "everyone affected gains +X per CL to whatever". But what about spells that actually do something each round or when triggered? Also, I'm not casting them at different strengths.

Q72: Poison stacks with itself, right? If you get stabbed with a poisoned knife three times, you save three times now and three times a minute later. What about disease? What happens when you get sneezed on three times? What if you catch three different diseases?

Surreal

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Re: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2008, 07:24:42 AM »
A 71: Some of these fall into the fuzzy gray area. By strict interpretation, nothing overlaps. However, I would rule that external effects would stack (entangles, walls of fire, etc). As for Hold Person and similar, only one spell effect of that name can affect the target. This was implemented to simplify certain things in the rules, but also leads to stupid workarounds like casting resist energy on an enemy which already has that buff active, changing it to something else so your teammate can nuke him.

A 72: You have to make saves for each.
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Redeemer of Ogar

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Re: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 01:30:21 AM »
As for Hold Person and similar, only one spell effect of that name can affect the target. This was implemented to simplify certain things in the rules, but also leads to stupid workarounds like casting resist energy on an enemy which already has that buff active, changing it to something else so your teammate can nuke him.

To which I would like to note that any DM who doesn't treat Resist Energy (fire) as a different spell than Resist Energy (cold) really deserves having their NPC's borked by the "stupid workaround" that said decision creates.

CannibalSmith

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Re: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 05:18:03 AM »
Quote from: SRD
None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.
So even though all but one spells are possibly ignored for the purpose of effects, they still all count when you try to dispel them or do something else that counts spells (there is a spell that deals 1d12 damage to target per spell currently running on it). Correct?

The "stupid workaround" is not at all disruptive because of how situational that is. Due to the mostly monstrous nature of most enemies in D&D and the mostly human(oid) PCs that tactic is actually more of a threat to the PCs.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 09:47:41 AM »
I think a good indication of how to handle overlapping (area effect) debuffs or battlefield control spells is given in the Twin Spell metamagic description: The effect cannot work twice on a creature, but everyone within the effect has to make TWO saves to not suffer from it. No-save effects apply once, as per the usual stacking rules.

Overlapping damage dealing spells clearly work normally, since damage always stacks. (So you could take damage from two walls of fire if they sit in the same squares.)

Redeemer of Ogar

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Re: Questions about Stacking and Overlapping
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 03:21:08 PM »
damage always stacks. (So you could take damage from two walls of fire if they sit in the same squares.)

Firebrand flame bursts don't stack... :P