Racial Spellcasting

[Lo77o]

Im trying to figure out if racial spellcasting "lets say from a Rakshasa" is an (Ex), (Su), (Sp) or natural ability.

Would be nice to know when i start using shapechange, if i get racial spellcasting.

As far as i understand it, all abilities are either natural (breathing, eyesight, movement modes and so on) and you get all of those even with Alter Self, or they have to be Ex, Su or Sp. So unless its a Sp ability i would get it with shapechange, but i need sources in books or errata or sage or something to take back to the gaming group.

Any help will be much appreciated.

[NiteCyper]

It's either (Ex) or (Su).

addendum: 29-01-10, 02:27, -8 GMT, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, the CO boards had figured it fell under the category of "extraordinary attacks/qualities", thus you acquired the ability when polymorphing or what-have-you. Quite broken, no?

addendum 2: 29-01-10, 02:30:00, -8 GMT, in the entry for the Rakshasa (as per the SRD at d20srd.org (see below)), "spells" are under the "Special Attacks" category.

"Sometimes a creature can cast arcane or divine spells just as a member of a spellcasting class can (and can activate magic items accordingly). Such creatures are subject to the same spellcasting rules that characters are, except as follows.

...

A spellcasting creature is not actually a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. A creature with access to cleric spells must prepare them in the normal manner and receives domain spells if noted, but it does not receive domain granted powers unless it has at least one level in the cleric class."

addendum 3: 29-01-10, 02:33, -8 GMT, for the link to the Rakshasa's image: "it's the Eye of the Tiger!"

addendum 4: 29-01-10, 02:37, -8 GMT, "[The subject of the "Polymorph" spell] also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form but does not gain the extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form or any supernatural or spell-like abilities."

That makes it a tough call, but, compared to Alter Self and the lack of a separate category called "extraordinary special attacks", I'd say the spellcasting is a go as long as errata has no other say.

addendum 5: 29-01-10, 02:40, -8 GMT, then again, no sane DM would allow that, and the open interpretation gives them that much more ground to (give the) say(-)so.

addendum 6: 29-01-10, 02:42, -8 GMT, I didn't notice you were talking about the "Shapechange" spell. The real question is, are "extraordinary" and "special attacks" the same? IN MY OPINION, if you haven't broken the game by the time you've reached 9th-level spells, you are doing (read: optimizing) it wrong. The system just falls apart by then (for (optimized) Wizards). That's why I respect E6.

Reference(s):
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rakshasa.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spells
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm

[Kuroimaken]

The short answer: racial spellcasting is obtained even when Polymorphing.

The long answer: the exact part where this is stated is lost to me. If Failmax hadn't deleted most of the threads, you could probably check it on the "easy to read polymorph errata". As is though, you'll have to ask someone with a better memory.

[awaken DM golem]

Shortly after the TO-board got created, a (some sort) Polymorph errata came out  { ... insert version # 17.3a smiley face ... }
that made the Racial Spellcasting obtainable by Polymorph, via either (ex) or natural,
but I don't remember the argumentation that got there.
K / Frank came up with it.
Something along the lines of: It has to be one of them, therefore it is. And then it is picked to be ___.
But I'm a little hazy without the exact thread.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Well, there's a couple of things in MMV that explicitly list racial spellcasting as being (ex).

In addition, there are counterarguments which prevent it from (su) or (sp), so by process of elimination...

[JaronK]

Im trying to figure out if racial spellcasting "lets say from a Rakshasa" is an (Ex), (Su), (Sp) or natural ability.

It's an Ex Special Attack.  It's listed in creatures in MMV as Ex, but IIRC outside of MMV they never list the ability type explicitly.  You'll also want to look at page 180 of the PHB where it's implicitly stated... note that Su and Sp abilities are defined by how they are different from spells, so spells are not Su or Sp. 

Would be nice to know when i start using shapechange, if i get racial spellcasting.

By RAW, you do.  And then your DM smacks you upside the head and says "don't do that again."  So... yeah.  Spellcasting via Shapechange (and Polymorph!) is one of those "legal but totally broken" things like Flowing Time Genesis.

As far as i understand it, all abilities are either natural (breathing, eyesight, movement modes and so on) and you get all of those even with Alter Self, or they have to be Ex, Su or Sp. So unless its a Sp ability i would get it with shapechange, but i need sources in books or errata or sage or something to take back to the gaming group.

You are correct.  Page 180 of the PHB (bottom right corner), and a few monsters in MMV are your sources to use.

JaronK