Author Topic: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.  (Read 23235 times)

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McPoyo

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2010, 12:45:50 PM »
the relative imbalance of "broken" or "over the top" things allowed.

Is what makes me not want to bother with the dungeon. DMM is allowed but a template isn't?!  :ahem :looloo
DMM:Persisted lesser vigor is allowed, but martial spirit self-healing isn't. :looloo
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

NiteCyper

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2010, 02:42:24 PM »
the relative imbalance of "broken" or "over the top" things allowed.

Is what makes me not want to bother with the dungeon. DMM is allowed but a template isn't?!  :ahem :looloo
DMM:Persisted lesser vigor is allowed, but martial spirit self-healing isn't. :looloo
Hold on while I get the relevant text saying DMM is banned so it can be posted for a third time in this thread.

addendum: 29-01-10, 09:44, -8 GMT,
PLEASE read the arena rules thread before suggesting stuff here. Their banlist is quite extensive(and the DM for neverending dungeon expanded on it, banning DMM-heighten, for example...after one made a theoretical build abusing reserve feats for infinite large earth elementals and 9d4 force needles).
No conventional optimization!

addendum 2: retrospect: 29-01-10, 09:45, -8 GMT, oh, I see. DMM-Heighten is banned, but DMM itself isn't.

addendum 3: 29-01-10, 09:47, -8 GMT, I forget if Illumian pseudo-Heighten is banned.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 02:47:37 PM by NiteCyper »
Caveat: I edit my posts, ever and anon after.

McPoyo

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2010, 02:52:55 PM »
From what we've seen so far, probably.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2010, 04:03:02 PM »
The rationale for the banlist is 99% based upon the arena banlist.  Once you realize that, it all makes sense.
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Amechra

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #104 on: August 28, 2010, 01:55:08 AM »
Human Warmage 1//Cloistered Cleric 1. Must worship Tem et Nu. (and have defeating a hippo as part of your backstory)

Feats: Versatile Spellcaster, Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, Magic Devotion, Blessed by Tem et Nu, Extra Turning.
1 flaw (I assume that's the amount allowed?)

If more than one is allowed, change human to Illumian and use that Illumian word that allows you 2/day DMM without actually having to take any of the feats.

If your charisma is 14 (Let's just say it is, OK?) you would have 9 Turning attempts and 9 hippo rebuking attempts, which can both be used to fuel your devotion feats. You can also, I believe, sacrifice a Warmage's 6 cantrips and 4 1st level spell slots to spontaneously cast cure spells, and you could use Versatile Spellcaster to sacrifice slots in any configuration to cast spells of a higher level, again in any configuration.

Would this be passable?
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2010, 02:01:28 AM »
Hippo rebuking doesn't qualify for DMM.
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Amechra

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #106 on: August 28, 2010, 02:27:08 AM »
Dang it!

Well then, we can go a little crazier then.

Human Warmage 1//Cloistered Cleric 1. Worship Afflux

Domains: Knowledge (sub for Devotion), Healing (sub for Devotion), and Undeath

Feats (Feats from Domains are bracketed): Versatile Spellcaster, [Extra Turning], [Healing Devotion], [Knowledge Devotion], Extra Turning, Heretic of the Faith

1 flaw.

Assuming 14 Charisma again (and you'll want it to be higher), you have 13 turning attempts. You will spend these on healing until you hit 3rd level, where you will grab a decent Divine feat. If Devotion feats are considered Divine feats, you can grab that Divine feat that allows you to recover spells.

All this and you get to flip around what spells you have as you please, and can do this for spells of up to 2nd level.

It's modest, I know.
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

Sohala

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #107 on: August 28, 2010, 03:28:35 PM »
Can you clear it within 13 minutes?

My attempt at a character.

Azurin
Fighter 1//Cloistered Cleric 1

14
10
16
14
12
12

Able Learner, Shape Soulmeld - Therapeutic Mantle, Divine Metamagic - Persistent Spell, Persistent Spell, Martial Stance - Martial Spirit, Extend Spell, Extra Turning, Knowledge Devotion, Willing Deformity

Shaky & Vulnerable for flaws.

Next level has a lot of options, either go with fighter for dungeoncrasher or crusader, retraining Martial Stance to something else, maybe a deformity. If I go with crusader, dragonfire adept would go other the other side, and then I would select dragonscale husk. Fighter has more options, could grab binder for ability healing, warlock for an invocation, incarnate for a second meld (retraining Shape Soulmeld), rogue for trapfinding (most likely grabbing a feat instead of sneak attack), or a level of factotum.

Think it would hold up to the riggers of the dungeon?
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

McPoyo

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #108 on: August 28, 2010, 03:30:29 PM »
Can you clear it within 13 minutes?

My attempt at a character.

Azurin
Fighter 1//Cloistered Cleric 1

14
10
16
14
12
12

Able Learner, Shape Soulmeld - Therapeutic Mantle, Divine Metamagic - Persistent Spell, Persistent Spell, Martial Stance - Martial Spirit, Extend Spell, Extra Turning, Knowledge Devotion, Willing Deformity

Shaky & Vulnerable for flaws.

Next level has a lot of options, either go with fighter for dungeoncrasher or crusader, retraining Martial Stance to something else, maybe a deformity. If I go with crusader, dragonfire adept would go other the other side, and then I would select dragonscale husk. Fighter has more options, could grab binder for ability healing, warlock for an invocation, incarnate for a second meld (retraining Shape Soulmeld), rogue for trapfinding (most likely grabbing a feat instead of sneak attack), or a level of factotum.

Think it would hold up to the riggers of the dungeon?
How are you getting 8 feat slots?
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

Sohala

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #109 on: August 28, 2010, 03:36:36 PM »
First, racial, flaw, flaw, fighter, domain, domain, domain trade, vile.
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

McPoyo

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #110 on: August 28, 2010, 04:00:37 PM »
Ah, worshipping an Elder Evil. That's the one I missed.
[Spoiler]
A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #111 on: August 28, 2010, 05:06:59 PM »
Cleric of that evil omnidomain snake thing, I take it?
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Sohala

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #112 on: August 29, 2010, 12:11:32 AM »
A background doesn't look like is required, nor following a deity for spells.
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

Amechra

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #113 on: August 29, 2010, 12:33:47 AM »
Human Warlock 1//Druid 1

Invocations: Summon Swarm

Feats: Magical Training, Precocious Apprentice, Summon Familiar, Shape Soulmeld (Soulspark Familiar)

2 Flaws

You have a familiar, a Soulspark Familiar, a Wild Companion, the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Master spells, and the ability to Summon Swarms. You are effectively your own party.

(Probably will die really fast, but at least I tried.)
[spoiler]Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".
[/spoiler]

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #114 on: August 29, 2010, 01:01:09 AM »
A background doesn't look like is required, nor following a deity for spells.
All other elder evils are incompatible with divine casters, IIRC.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Sohala

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #115 on: August 29, 2010, 01:48:12 AM »
I only see the requirement of swearing service to an elder evil, not total worship.
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #116 on: August 29, 2010, 01:53:03 AM »
I'm pretty sure you're only allowed one deity, though, as I said, it doesn't really matter that much.  The exception for SertrousErfang (116) is wide enough to drive a bonus-feat laden truck through.
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

Sohala

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Re: Optimization in the neverending dungeon.
« Reply #117 on: August 29, 2010, 02:14:15 AM »
Works for me.
"You think I'm talking about breaking the rules?"
"No I'm just trying to figure out how far you want them bent."
[spoiler]
Characters
Ixen-Elemental Mage Test Game
Torgthen-The Darkening
Eldak-The Neverending Dungeon
Games
Dungeon Delver's Delight
Adventures in Eberron
Town of Terror
Working Progress
[3.5] Mana Mage