Author Topic: Telflammar Shadowlord  (Read 14940 times)

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Drull

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Telflammar Shadowlord
« on: January 23, 2010, 11:54:18 PM »
Hello people!

Even though I'm mostly just a reader on these boards I just have to ask something thats been bothering me for a while now. is there ANY way for a character to gain access to Telflammar Shadowlord at lv 8 when skills allow it?

I am well aware of the lv20 builds that take great advantage of this prestige class, but as I'm about to start a campaign at level 4 I want to get access to the prestige class that I'm after as soon as possible :).

The only way I figured, for this to be possible was Rogue3/Fighter2/Crinti shadow Marauder but it just feels wrong to only be able to alter the space time continuum and go through shadows.... if i'm on a random horse (or doggie in case of a halfling :P).

Other Ideas I was pondering was rogue3/psychic warrior2/elocator3, which would get me access at level 9, however this build has problems with getting the BAB+4 needed for spring attack to get into elocator at lv6.
I considered Jaunter 3 for dimension door, but I have again problems getting +4bab AND 2d6 sneak attack to get into jaunter at level 5 and shadowlord at level 8.
Simply taking the template is not an option as the DM wont allow it, doesnt go with background of the campaign. (+ its again one level late entry :P)

Any ideas I still havent thought off that might save me? All input would be greatly appretiated :).

More or less all wizards books are open to discussion, however 3rd party sources should be avoided if possible...

bearsarebrown

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010, 11:57:44 PM »
Shape Soulmeld (Blink Shirt), Flaws and Swordsage Maneuvers will help greatly.

Shape Soulmeld is 10ft dimension door for the cost of one feat. Swordsage can get you +2d6 sneak attack and the Shadow Jaunt maneuvers.

Drull

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 12:08:15 AM »
Unfortunately, swordsage doesnt cut it.

Unless i'm reading it wrong, shadow jaunt doesnt actually say "as if by dimension door" it just teleports you. While it would be awesome to have that as a shadowlord, it doesnt help qualify for the class. Same for sneak attack, a level 5 swordsage can get me 2d6 sneak attack, but it has 3/4 bab just as rogue, so I might as well take those 3 levels there and be done with it. Taking the feat to get assasins stance just isnt available fast enough :)

While we're at it, I forgot to mention I considered the insanely cool phb conjurer variant as well, however it also simply says it teleport you, with no added explanations.

I'll have to read up on the soulmeld idea, I must admit I havent read that book

bearsarebrown

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 12:12:23 AM »
You know, technically the Soulmeld isn't a spell or spell-like, but it does say as Dimension Door.

If you dip a single level in Swordsage you can get the Sneak Attack and the Jaunt, which technically doesn't qualify, but I think a lot of DMs would let it anyways. I think that is a serious case of Splatbooks never mentioning each other.

NiteCyper

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 02:32:40 AM »
re: the template: the class is clearly designed to go with the Shadow-walker template as it specifically states that if you do not have it (implying it feels that entire prereq), you have two other options to enter it. Try to find the Adaptation section to convince your DM.

Dimension Door is the prereq, but any teleportation triggers Shadow Pounce, no?

re: Crinti Shadow Marauder: it gets Shadow Pounce at level 5. You can enter it at level 6. Telflammar gets Shadow Pounce at level 3, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, and you can enter it at level 8 (with the 10 ranks prereqs). Now, if I'm not wrong, you gain the Shadow Pounce ability at the same time.

re: skills: Remember, as long as its a class skill for one of your classes, the ranks limit stays at character level + 3 forever. If you're human, take Able Learner (RoD, and Factotum).

There's a Feat Rogue variant (trade SA for Fighter bonus feats), and a "Thug" Fighter variant (SA for Fighter bonus feats). Take Able Learner until level 8 (where you enter Telflammar Shadowlord) where you retrain it for a prereq feat because you can apply retraining effects before taking on the next level, thus allowing you to retain the benefit(s) of Able Learner.

Maybe Unseen Seen (PrC, CM) and Hunter's Eye (spell) may help?

There's also some weapon that has the [Teleportation] subtype...

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3959.0 Warlock's Flee the Scene invocation.

Have you heard of Knight of Shadows or Metus Somnambulus? Knight of Shadows broke Metus Somnambulus's Shadow Pounce record. It involved Ruby Knight Vindicator's Divine Impetus.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 03:02:04 AM by NiteCyper »
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Rooster

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 04:31:37 AM »
Human Swordsage 7
Take the Arcane Swordsage variant under Adaptations (lose light armor proficiency, HD drops to d6, gain the ability to take arcane spells in place of maneuvers).
Feats:
H: Blind Fight
1: Dodge
3: Mobility
6: Spring Attack
At fifth level, take Assassin's Stance (Grants +2d6 Sneak Attack) and at seventh level take the spell Dimension Door as a maneuver. Knowledge (local - Thesk), Hide and Move Silently are all Swordsage class skills, so no problems there.
Once you qualify for your PRC, I recommend picking up Adaptive Style (TOB), Weapon Finesse(PHB) and Shadow Blade(TOB) and focusing heavily on the Shadow Hand maneuvers since they naturally fit your theme and are quite nice. Oh and get Wraithstrike as a maneuver once you're L3ish while you're on the way there. :)
Obviously, main ability scores are Dex and Wis, which also synergizes well with being a sneaky scout with a good AC. :)

NiteCyper

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2010, 06:32:07 AM »
Take the Arcane Swordsage variant under Adaptations (lose light armor proficiency, HD drops to d6, gain the ability to take arcane spells in place of maneuvers).
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861842/The_S.S._Timewarp?post_id=338121370#338121370 :)

Arcane Swordsage is broken :) because of how many spells it gets to cast in a day (i.e. take ToB :) maneuver recovery action :), take a Ring of Sustenance :) or something :), or just abstain from necessities :) for one day :), take how many rounds there are in a day :), take casting time :), then calculate how many times you get to cast your spells :)). :)

P.S. I hate smilies.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 06:38:14 AM by NiteCyper »
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telehax

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2010, 08:06:46 AM »
Shadowlord gets it at level 4.

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2010, 08:14:20 AM »
You can access it with mark of passage + dragonmarked heir.
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Empirate

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2010, 09:45:08 AM »
I'd take the template if I were you. It's not overwhelming, but assuming LA buyoff, won't slow you down much, and offers quite a few interesting SLAs on top of your TSL spells.

Drull

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2010, 10:24:59 AM »
Thanks everyone for the quick replies!

re: Crinti Shadow Marauder: it gets Shadow Pounce at level 5. You can enter it at level 6. Telflammar gets Shadow Pounce at level 3, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, and you can enter it at level 8 (with the 10 ranks prereqs). Now, if I'm not wrong, you gain the Shadow Pounce ability at the same time.s.

Point of shadow marauder was the first level ability which gives you shadow ride which transfers you as if by dimension door. It would take a bit of convincing, but that would probably qualify for the shadowlord.

You can access it with mark of passage + dragonmarked heir.

Thats..... pure genius. I knew I should have read up on ebberon books a bit more  :banghead
I just skimmed through the book and saw the feat, it seems as if you get 1x/dim. door just by taking two feats (or 1 feat and dragonmarked heir). Am I missing a fine print which makes it somewhat less attractive?

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2010, 06:33:55 PM »
Well, it *is* only once per day (until you advance a few levels, at least), and people often have better things to do with your feats (and dragonmarked heir needs favored in house as well as least mark).

That said, the lesser mark qualifies you for Orien Battle Stride (free 5' step whenever someone misses you with a melee or ranged attack).  The Blade of Orien PrC is decent, but not the best (although you *do* get a lot of uses of dimension leap, and change it to a move action).

Also look through the dragonmark channeling rods - you can double the length of your Dimension Leap ability 3/day for 500 gp, and can quicken it for relatively cheaply as well.
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NiteCyper

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 09:04:12 PM »
Isn't there some feat that gives you an extra use of an SLA?

Addendum: "Magic in the Blood" (PGtF)?
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 09:31:40 PM »
Isn't there some feat that gives you an extra use of an SLA?

Addendum: "Magic in the Blood" (PGtF)?
Only works for racial SLAs.

Fortunately, virtually every dragonmark-enhancing feat tosses on another use or two.
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Shadowhunter

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2010, 09:53:47 PM »
2 levels of Totemist. Bind Blink Shirt to Totem Chakra. Max Essentia (2). Now you have a 24/7 30 feet Dimension Door as a... can't remeber if it's a Standard or Move. Not that it makes that huge of a difference, since Shadow Pounce activates anyhow.

X levels of Y, where X is any class that grants 2d6 sneak within Y levels, Rogue/SA Fighter/Assassin's Stance Swordsage etc.
Say SA Fighter 3.

2 levels of Z, where Z is any base class you like with at least 3/4 BAB and neat stuff.

Telflammar Shadowlord 4. Obvious pick is obvious.

Swiftblade 9. Because Shadowlords gain Haste, they have the same prerequisites, and the fact that Swiftblades are just generally all kinds of sexy.


Oh and Orien Dragonmarks already have the Blade of Orien PrC from Dragonmarked, which capstone ability is Orien's Fury.
Allows a full attack routine after a usage of a Dragonmark Teleporation.
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Drull

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2010, 01:51:32 AM »
First of all, incarnum looks damn fun, thanks for the input, glad I read it  :D
Now shamelessly to use the same thread to get a few questions out of the way.

Am I reading this correctly?
Since blink shirt automatically gives you dimension door 10 feet right away, I thought about spending the 2 essentia points to bind Girallon hands.

Am I reading correctly, that a totemist2/rogue3 would have 4 claw attacks, 1 on the highest bab 3 as secondary attacks to which he could add his sneak attack dice?

It sounds great but also a bit.... a lot?

Also, as I cant find that, is there a way to "hide" your soulmelds? As great as the 4 claws are, i wouldn't really want to attract too much attention as the 4 handed guy...

telehax

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2010, 07:21:29 AM »
More or less correct, except its called Girallon's Arms.

As for the second question, not without other magic. Sadly I think the hat of disguise doesn't work, depending on what "body type" means, as you could only disguise as 4 armed creatures.

tarbrush

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 08:21:32 AM »
Fortune has smiled upon me, as I'm trying to do interesting things with TSL at the moment.  So, does anyone have a hardcopy of Metus Sonmambulus or a link to the Knight of Shadow please?  The link on the wizards board to Metus is broken unfortunately, and all of my google fu can't find me a copy :(

EDIT:  Found the knight of shadow :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 08:49:06 AM by tarbrush »

Alastar

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 11:34:10 PM »
Fortune has smiled upon me, as I'm trying to do interesting things with TSL at the moment.  So, does anyone have a hardcopy of Metus Sonmambulus or a link to the Knight of Shadow please?  The link on the wizards board to Metus is broken unfortunately, and all of my google fu can't find me a copy :(

EDIT:  Found the knight of shadow :)

Holy crap!!!  People still remember that old build I made!!! :bigeye :embarrassed

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Telflammar Shadowlord
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 04:18:37 AM »
::shudder::

Your DM deserves whatever you do to his BBEG if he actually allows multipouncing... PM me if you want truly obscene cheese for both entry (in at level 5) and DPS.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 04:33:40 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
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