Semi-Optimized Game, Wizard Building

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, so the groundwork :
-All books allowed
-All settings as well
-DM is pretty well cool with anything as long as I don't butt rape the game deliberately
-Base right now is Wizard 2/Metaphysical Spellshaper 3, going into 6th level with all the requisites for Incantatrix

My idea is to take 3 levels of Incantatrix for Metamagic Effect, 5 levels of Halruuan Elder and full War Weaver (5 levels).  Now, this leaves 2 levels free, and also the question of what works better at lower levels.  So far web, haste/slow, and grease have dominated combats, letting the two barbarians and rogue make short work of anything in our path, including a beholder (heh, Reflex save 23 bitch!), so War Weaver fits perfectly.  The other two seem good fits for Incantatrix 4 and Mindbender 1 respectively, for Mindsight and the extra metamagic feat, but now this begs the question : what are some of the more optimized party-friendly metamagicks?  I'll be chain-reaching for sure, since it's easier to get to than archmage at this level, and War Weaver of course makes all the buffing a lot easier. Would a Spelldancer dip be more worthwhile, since it's not limited by Int bonus?  

Finally : This thread is also a sister thread to the one posted by fun_at_funerals, since our wizards are in similar situations.

Post Script : My wizard also just came into possession of 64,500 gold, and initially had 10,000 to spend.  Any specific must have items?  I'm thinking the "Enchant Me!" quarterstaff and belt of healing battle for sure, among others.

EDIT : Also contemplating Wiz 3/MPSS 3/Incant 10/xxxx 4 since this game may well go epic.  No loss of CL, all the goodies of MPSS and Incantatrix, and room for dips

[NiteCyper]

Sculpted Grease?
Nightmare Spinner capstone dip?

[KellKheraptis]

Sculpted Grease?
Nightmare Spinner capstone dip?

Sculpted Grease just makes me giddy   What's the capstone of Nightmare Spinner?  I know one level gives immunity to fear, and it's it -1 CL if you go all the way?  I usually don't mess with fear effects, as it's too easy to be immune to it (though if it's non-mind affecting, that'd be cool).

[NiteCyper]

It gives you Bonus Spells to every spell level you know, but you don't progress arcane spellcasting for that dip. The cheesiest part is that it doesn't specifically give you Bonus Spells for levels you don't know, but that falls into the same category as the lack of proper wording for bonus spells for having a high spellcasting stat. Anyways, taking the RAI, you take this once you get 9th level spells to cap it off, but this may be regrettable as you are going epic, unless you are always ahead of your group's power.

[KellKheraptis]

It gives you Bonus Spells to every spell level you know, but you don't progress arcane spellcasting for that dip. The cheesiest part is that it doesn't specifically give you Bonus Spells for levels you don't know, but that falls into the same category as the lack of proper wording for bonus spells for having a high spellcasting stat. Anyways, taking the RAI, you take this once you get 9th level spells to cap it off, but this may be regrettable as you are going epic, unless you are always ahead of your group's power.

Is that for the last or first level of NS, and how many bonus spells?  Free +1 all spell levels in exchange for 1 CL I can make back up anyhow sounds wicked sexy (and actually I get the 1 back anyhow from Elven Generalist).

[snakeman830]

It gives you Bonus Spells to every spell level you know, but you don't progress arcane spellcasting for that dip. The cheesiest part is that it doesn't specifically give you Bonus Spells for levels you don't know, but that falls into the same category as the lack of proper wording for bonus spells for having a high spellcasting stat. Anyways, taking the RAI, you take this once you get 9th level spells to cap it off, but this may be regrettable as you are going epic, unless you are always ahead of your group's power.

Is that for the last or first level of NS, and how many bonus spells?  Free +1 all spell levels in exchange for 1 CL I can make back up anyhow sounds wicked sexy (and actually I get the 1 back anyhow from Elven Generalist).

First level doesn't advance casting, but that's the only one that doesn't.

[A_Shadow_of_Life]

How are you a Metaphysical spellshaper after level 2? It requires 3rd lvl spells.

[KellKheraptis]

How are you a Metaphysical spellshaper after level 2? It requires 3rd lvl spells.

Sanctum Spell + Dragonblood Pool background, self-sustaining by level 5   Or Prec Apprentice + retrain, or one of several dirty tricks

[bearsarebrown]

Then I'm confused why Wizard 2. Why not just 1?

[KellKheraptis]

Then I'm confused why Wizard 2. Why not just 1?

Requires 5 ranks in a skill or two   I can technically retrain that down to 1 if I really want to.

[bearsarebrown]

Then I'm confused why Wizard 2. Why not just 1?

Requires 5 ranks in a skill or two   I can technically retrain that down to 1 if I really want to.

...oh

Irrelevant Question @Kell
[spoiler]Do you ever play your insane builds in games? I'm talking the triple 9s with CL 220 or Warmages with auto-quickens from every spell list, those insane Ardent builds that I don't understand, things like that? Or are they just CO fun?[/spoiler]

[KellKheraptis]

Semi-relevant answer : Only the Warmage has seen actual use so far.  I am keeping the CL monster in reserve, and I'm playing a version of my Ultimate Mage (the non-war weaver elven generalist described here).  The Ardent as well, if you mean the variant stacking one that ended up with Rage tacked onto Monk progression (everything Tashalatora gives), though that game has been on permanent hiatus since the DM left for winter break.

[A_Shadow_of_Life]

Oh, you mean picking a bunch of meh feats just for early qualification? I would rather pick good feats and wait but that's just me ^^;, as a DM I wouldn't let you use feats to be able to temporarily cast 3rd lvl spells to qualify you. Otherwise when you can't cast your spell as 3rd lvl, you lose the powers, depending *Grins* I am evil though!

[bearsarebrown]

Oh, you mean picking a bunch of meh feats just for early qualification? I would rather pick good feats and wait but that's just me ^^;, as a DM I wouldn't let you use feats to be able to temporarily cast 3rd lvl spells to qualify you. Otherwise when you can't cast your spell as 3rd lvl, you lose the powers, depending *Grins* I am evil though!

You retrain the feats at a later level, which by then, you'll already qualify. This is done because you can avoid dead levels.

(Look at the Wizard/Sorc/Cleric tables. See how there is nothing after level 1? Get the hell out of that class!)

[KellKheraptis]

While it won't be quite (lmao) as metamagic focused, with retraining I can pick up both full Incantatrix (setting up for epic) and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil.  This isn't per se anything new (one of the first suggestions once retraining was found IIRC), but I like to think I am one of the earlier ones to mention using metamagic effect on the veils (and even if I'm not, I'd never seen it anywhere before, came up with it on my own, and think it fits an archmage to a T).

Speaking of which, Incantatrix, Metaphysical Spellshaper, Halruuan Elder are the three I have for metamagic reduction.  Those aside, what are some good metamagic reducers?  Arcane Thesis is a whopping -2 per MM applied, but what to Thesis without utterly ass raping the game, while keeping the versatility/GOD schtick?  Metamagic School Focus would be a LOT more appealing if it were more than 3/day (or could apply all 3 to one spell).  I might be able to dredge up Earth Sense and Earth Spell, to compliment Sanctum Spell, and combined with the proscribed build, that would mean -4 levels by level 15 to every spell (and I do mean every, as I have access to spontaneous magic via MPSS if I apply metamagic to it).

[NiteCyper]

What is "Dragonblood Pool background"?

re: Arcane Thesis: It's only -1 per MM unless there's errata. -2 is the CL.
re: Metamagic School Focus: The way MMSF isn't worded allows it to "apply all 3 to one spell".

re: Sanctum Spell: What are your first feats up to nabbing Sanctum Spell? You should post the build. Also, one could argue that as long as you're not in your Sanctum, you aren't considered able to utilize its benefits. Though, this is not so far from saying that a Shadowcraft Mage loses its prereqs if you don't have a level 4 slot with a Shadow spell and 3 Illusion spells ready to be cast at all times.

[Agita]

What is "Dragonblood Pool background"?

It's a magical location from Complete Mage that gives you an arcane spell slot of level 3 or lower for a year. It's specifically called out as arcane spell slot, which opens the door for some shenantics.

[KellKheraptis]

The irony of it all is that due to being the only spellcaster in the party, arcane or otherwise, I'm probably going to fully respec to full Incantatrix and Initiate.  The extra metamagic reduction is nice and all, but A)it's technically 3rd party and B)it can't top god mode when I need it.  Persistent veils when needed means if the shit hits the fan, I can pretty well guarantee I've got the party covered.  Oh, and I'm tempted to start ranting and raving, while muttering about building more steampunk technology and the alignment of the two towers, and growing offended when people don't use my whole title (Sauruman!)   Hell, by the time I have all 7 levels, I can conceivable persist all of them if need be.  Also, since the rogue is the social engineering type, when we run out of disposable scouts (at the moment he has over 100 riding dogs) I can always whip on the right veils and waltz right through a trapped area as shit blows up in my face and stops cold at the warding.  Assuming I don't summon a monkey to do it or turn the rogue/barb/other barb into a mindless monkey to do it for me (yay for no banned schools!).  I'm also entertaining the notion of "recruiting" a healer (read : third melee, or fourth when I buff if I feel like getting dirty) with a binding.  The DM would prolly ok it too so long as he doesn't steal the party's thunder (though given that it's a small group, another buffer never hurt anything...).

[NiteCyper]

1. "Warding" is a (Sp) x/day ability of the Iot7fV PrC that lasts 1 minute a level (of what, I do not know) that isn't a spell that can be Persisted.
2. One questions the ability to even cast out of one's "Warding" other than if it's as a one-way "Wall", thus reducing your effectivity/effectiveness.
3. You can only have one Veil to one Warding and a max of 2 Wardings via "Double Warding".
4. re: trap-baiting: I assume as per the rules of not being able to force one's "Warding" upon a being, this includes traps which would then pass through your "Warding" unaffected (as per a "Personal" "Warding") as you pass through/by them. Then again, if the traps you face are varying, a "Red Veil" only blocks "blocks all nonmagical ranged attacks and missiles."

5. "Persistent veils when needed means if the shit hits the fan, I can pretty well guarantee I've got the party covered."
They'd need to be adjacent to you at all times as an "Area" "Warding", else suffer the effects of a Veil for attempting to return to adjacency. Now that I think it, you can allow them to return to your side by forcing them through your "Warding", i.e. moving toward them, in which case your teammates must be ready to move with you, and I don't know how one calculates moving simultaneously when turns are supposed to be taken. I'd suppose they move first, and then you move to them to force the "Warding" on them so they aren't affected by it.

[KellKheraptis]

1. "Warding" is a (Sp) x/day ability of the Iot7fV PrC that lasts 1 minute a level (of what, I do not know) that isn't a spell that can be Persisted.
2. One questions the ability to even cast out of one's "Warding" other than if it's as a "Wall", thus reducing your effectivity/effectiveness.
3. You can only have one Veil to one Warding and a max of 2 Wardings via "Double Warding".
4. re: trap-baiting: I assume as per the rules of not being able to force one's "Warding" upon a being, this includes traps which would then pass through your "Warding" unaffected (as per a "Personal" "Warding"). Then again, if the traps you face are varying, a "Red Veil" only blocks "blocks all nonmagical ranged
attacks and missiles."
5. re: "Persistent veils when needed means if the shit hits the fan, I can pretty well guarantee I've got the party covered.": They'd need to be adjacent to you at all times as an "Area" "Warding", else suffer the effects of a Veil for attempting to return to adjacency. Now that I think it, you can allow them to return to your side by forcing them through your "Warding", i.e. moving toward them.

1. It is a persistent magical effect, and is therefore a valid target for Metamagic Effect.
2. There is a thread on this, involving the errata for Prismatic (enter geometric here).
3. I have 4/day when finished, 2 at a time, and easily 7 uses of Metamagic Effect.  That's all 7 veils 24/7 if I want them.
4. I'm not forcing anything.  Triggering a trap is hardly forcing the trap to affect you, with the sole exception of caltrops (as implied by not getting deflection bonii against it).
5. The idea isn't to ward the party with them, usually.  The barbs will be in the thick of shit, but once I lay down the arcane smack, all their shock troopering will mean nothing when the dude in the pointy hat adds a bullseye to the tunic.  The idea is it'll keep me from going splat in the event we get overwhelmed initially, and I'm confident enough in my abilities with a high level wizard (which I will be by the time I can pull off these tricks) to crank it up to 11 and pwn just about anything remotely level equivalent (though in this contingency exercise, chances are it would be something well above, and equally pwnt), and then either have a summon/call resurrect, or polymorph and do it myself at dawn.

EDIT : And further, they do nothing to prevent me from using my own buffs, nor do they impede conjured elements.  Short of an individual veil stopping said element, Orb spells and the like work just fine on my end, though if I have the one up that stops all spells, I'll most likely be going into bash mode.