Crusader/Incarnate

[jolt]

I've seen this suggestion by Surreal in a thread the other day and as I've been interested in Crusaders for a while, I found this a very good idea.

So the plan is to go crusader with a dip in incarnate to get the therapeutic mantle soulmeld to get more selfhealing. And if we go human, the feats look something like this:

Human: Combat Expertise
1: Improved Trip
3. Extra Granted Maneuver
6. Combat Reflexes
9. Evasive Reflexes
12. Robilar's Gambit
15. Open
18. Open

The build has to be a good solo tank at all lvls. So how can I improve this? Is Stone Power gonna give me alot more healing? Maybe thinking of throwing Mage Slayer in there ...

[snakeman830]

Thereputic Mantle, unfortunately, only works on Supernatural, spell-like, and spells that heal.  All of a Crusader's manuvers are, for some reason, extraordinary.  You'll have to have your DM houserule it for that to work.

Stone Power makes you a bit more durable, which is never a bad thing.  It doesn't heal you, though.

[Surreal]

The wording on Therapeutic Mantle says "whenever you are the target of a spell or effect that heals hit point damage". As long as your DM agrees that martial spirit healing is an "effect", it should work.

[snakeman830]

The wording on Therapeutic Mantle says "whenever you are the target of a spell or effect that heals hit point damage". As long as your DM agrees that martial spirit healing is an "effect", it should work.

Yup. You're right.  I'm wrong.

However, it also says the extra hp gained are from the spell level.  Why didn't they add in some extra rules for other possible healing effects?  As it is, it doesn't help at all if you don't invest essentia in it (assuming your healing isn't coming from spells).  I can see it working wonders when combined with Martial Spirit, though (2+2*Essentia points healed whenever you hit).  Would be nice if the DM rules manuver level to count as spell level for this for that extra bit of healing.

[jolt]

Ok let's assume it does work, how can we make the build better?

Crusader's Strike, Martial Spirit, Revitalizing Strike, Aura of Triumph, Rallying Strike all seem good maneuvers to grab.

[snakeman830]

For low levels, Astral Vambraces are your best friend.  Crusaders like getting hit, but they don't like taking any more damage than they have to, so the DR granted by the Vambraces will help.  When that starts getting penetrated, swap to Adamant Pauldrons.  It's half the DR value, but it's much harder to overcome and also comes with Light Fortification.

Vitality Belt, of course, makes you far more durable than you have a right of being.  I'd actually start fights with this soulmeld empty and transfer essentia as you need it.

Why is Evasive Reflexes in there?  You're supposed to be making the AoO's, not moving with them.

[BoB - Lord of Evil]

If you are not totally hooked on crusader all the way after an incarnate dip then sneaking in some hellreaver for divine succor, incandecent champion for fast healing and a couple more essetia is nice. Try fitting in the combat focus/combat vigor feats and get yourself a vampiric, wrathful healing weapon for kicks. Should be more self healing per round than your dm can handle

[jolt]

You're right on the Evasive reflexes, it's doing no good. And nice find on the astral vambraces, didn't know those.

As for Hellreaver dip, that would give me even more MAD to get some charisma for divine succor. And I find the Incandecent Champion too restriced. It's fast healing for so few uses a day, I think Combat Vigor would be better. So far we got this:

Human: Combat Expertise
1: Improved Trip
3. Extra Granted Maneuver
6. Combat Reflexes
9. Combat Focus
12. Robilar's Gambit
15. Combat Vigor
18. Combat Vigor

[BoB - Lord of Evil]

True there is a little MAD but as you get holy fury points every encounter even with a CHA of 10 you get 2 points (at 10 + 2*essentia healed per shot).

So try Wolf Totem Barbarian2/Incarnate2/Crusader2/Hellreaver2/Crusader+12 that nets you imp trip for free at 2nd level allowing you to change combat expertise for power attack to get into hellreaver.

Also for 10,000gp the magic eating armour enhancement from MiC gets you more healing.

[Surreal]

Maybe grab a vicious weapon. You'll be packing so much self-healing that you might just want to inflict damage to yourself to keep your damage pool going.

[Sinfire Titan]

True there is a little MAD but as you get holy fury points every encounter even with a CHA of 10 you get 2 points (at 10 + 2*essentia healed per shot).

So try Wolf Totem Barbarian2/Incarnate2/Crusader2/Hellreaver2/Crusader+12 that nets you imp trip for free at 2nd level allowing you to change combat expertise for power attack to get into hellreaver.

Also for 10,000gp the magic eating armour enhancement from MiC gets you more healing.

The Magic Eater Armor only works if his SR absorbs it successfully, but his SR is next to nothing (Incarnate 16 is required to get a decent source of SR).

[Aldgar]

Depends on what "Decent" SR is.

A 3rd level incarnate with the feat expanded soulmeld capacity can invest 3 essentia in spellward shirt, gaining SR 19 at ECL 3.
Which improves to SR 24 at ECL 6...

[Sinfire Titan]

Depends on what "Decent" SR is.

A 3rd level incarnate with the feat expanded soulmeld capacity can invest 3 essentia in spellward shirt, gaining SR 19 at ECL 3.
Which improves to SR 24 at ECL 6...

Which caps at SR 29 at ECL 20th. 34 if you buy an item and have the extra Essentia, but you can't use that item and the Vest in DMG2 at the same time. SR 34 is OK, but any true caster can get through that fairly easily with CL boosters. Plus, it's taking a soulmeld slot out of his 3 (not exactly enough to have fun with). Vitality Belt is more important for him.

[McPoyo]

Especially since it is highly dependent on the number of spellcasting enemies the DM throws at him.

[Sinfire Titan]

Especially since it is highly dependent on the number of spellcasting enemies the DM throws at him.

Or he could take Leadership, grabbing a Warlock Cohort and have him spam EB at minimum CL with the highest Eldritch Essence invocation he can use attached to the EB, thus healing him X HP/round. But then you would be wasting Leadership's potential power.

[Black Knight]

Have you considered the Vital Recovery feat?  I use it all the time with my crusader.

[jolt]

Forgot about Vital Recovery. That would be awesome to use with Therapeutic Mantle. (if it works)

[Rooster]

My $0.02: Get Sweeping Strikes as soon as you can qualify for it. With a Crusader's lockdown with Thicket of Blades, you basically get AOOs for free.

Occult Opportunist (one of the dragon magazines) and Mage Slayer are good for locking down casters, who will otherwise bane you by autosucceeding at defensive casting in front of you.

[BoB - Lord of Evil]

True there is a little MAD but as you get holy fury points every encounter even with a CHA of 10 you get 2 points (at 10 + 2*essentia healed per shot).

So try Wolf Totem Barbarian2/Incarnate2/Crusader2/Hellreaver2/Crusader+12 that nets you imp trip for free at 2nd level allowing you to change combat expertise for power attack to get into hellreaver.

Also for 10,000gp the magic eating armour enhancement from MiC gets you more healing.

The Magic Eater Armor only works if his SR absorbs it successfully, but his SR is next to nothing (Incarnate 16 is required to get a decent source of SR).

The MiC magic eating armour says anytime you succed on a saving throw from a spell that targets you not SR.

[Sinfire Titan]

True there is a little MAD but as you get holy fury points every encounter even with a CHA of 10 you get 2 points (at 10 + 2*essentia healed per shot).

So try Wolf Totem Barbarian2/Incarnate2/Crusader2/Hellreaver2/Crusader+12 that nets you imp trip for free at 2nd level allowing you to change combat expertise for power attack to get into hellreaver.

Also for 10,000gp the magic eating armour enhancement from MiC gets you more healing.

The Magic Eater Armor only works if his SR absorbs it successfully, but his SR is next to nothing (Incarnate 16 is required to get a decent source of SR).

The MiC magic eating armour says anytime you succed on a saving throw from a spell that targets you not SR.

Ah, I thought it was replicating the Spellwarped template.