Author Topic: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk  (Read 21084 times)

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Rasengan2theface

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Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« on: January 18, 2010, 03:36:08 AM »
Hello,

Right now I'm playing a level 7 Pathfinder(He's actually 8, but I haven't updated his stats yet) Human Monk. At the moment his stats look something like Str 20, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 17, Cha 10 after buffs from a Belt of Giant Strength +4, so Str is actually 16. Feats are Combat Reflexes, Imp Grapple, Greater Grapple, Scorpion's Grasp, Pharaoh's Fist, Sand Dancer, Pain Touch and Improved Trip. Skills wise, I also have a really high Acrobatics, Stealth and Climb stats (21, 19 and 13 respectively)

Even after this relatively nice looking set up, IMO, I'm still not really satisfied with my Monk because our DM isn't interested in letting me fight anything that isn't Large or Huge or that doesn't have a Fort save that says "Has to roll a 1 to be stunned." So I'm constatly feeling Gimped on the battlefield and due to more "vocal" party members, I don't really get a lot of RP love either, then again with a Cha of 10 I shouldn't anyway.

I'm really wanting more of a battlefield controler type, rather than "I hit stuff and it explodes" type, because that's what our fighter is for and I just seem to have a harder time doing it, even though our DM has given me a REALLY nice neck (Amulet of Mighty Fists +5) and some BAMF bracers (Bracers of Blades, pretty sure it's from the Mini's Book). I'm not below using "interesting tactics" to gain the advantage, I just don't really know what I'm capable of tactically to get this stuff done.

Our party at the moment consists of a Fighter, Wizard/Innitiate of the 7 Fold Veil, Rogue, and a Rogue/Cleric/Sorcerer and me as Monk. As a house rule, we can't just take dips into PrCs, so if I start one, I have to completely finish it, although it would seem we can dip itno base classes, but we're not even sure if the RCS even asked if he could do that or not.

We're allowed to use pretty much any WotC book, but no Homebrew or Online suppliments or Dragon Mag additions unless we bring it all to him and he says, "Sure, why not?"  

This character, asuming he lives that long, really doesn't need to be "effective" until level 13, because that's when the main plot begins.

So, if I can get any advice on how to help/fix my build or equipment I should look at buying, budget at the time is 5000g and some change, I would GREATLY appreciate any help you could offer.

Also, if there are any ways to either "reset" him or just things like his feats, other than killing him, please include that in any advice you have. Thank you.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 03:39:37 AM by Rasengan2theface »

Braithwaite

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2010, 02:46:04 PM »
Welcome to monk. Pitiful in 3.5, 5% less pitiful in pathfinder.

To "reset" him. Ask your DM if you can rebuild the same character, with the same stats and skills, as a swordsage. Pick swordsage powers that seem martial art-ish in nature (Setting Sun is where you go for battlefield control, if I remember correctly), and you will have a better character. If the answer is no, point to the retraining rules (in unearthed arcana I think) and ask if you can retrain just your last monk level. Monk 6 isn't a terrible place to stop taking monk levels (although monk 0 or 1 or 2 are all better). If that fails, ask how he feels about retraining feats or skills, because some of the prestige class suggestions below will need modified feat/skill choices.

To repair him as best you can. Stop taking monk levels. Find a way to regularly get to large size.

I will recommend either a straight psychic warrior progression, or a level or 2 in psychic warrior (to satisfy prereqs), followed by warmind. Psychic warriors or warminds can enlarge themselves, and at higher levels can do it as a free action or up 2 size categories.

Or you could shift to divine casting with your high Wisdom. It is a little late to start Druid, but you could be wildshaping by level 11, large wildshaping by 13, huge by 15 (earlier if you can retrain that last monk level). Or, take a cleric dip and follow it with Sacred Fist. Make sure to pick a domain that gives you enlarge or lets you polymorph into a large form.

If you want to stay primarily monk, consider a 1 level dip into a Tome of Battle class, probably at level 9. It won't solve all your problems, but a selection of 3rd level maneuvers (like White Raven Tactics or Iron Heart Surge + some swift action stuff to do while you are full attacking) and a helpful stance crank any melee character up a notch on the efficacy scale.

If tome of magic is in play, Binder or Totemist have good stuff for monks also. I don't own it, so someone else will have to talk about that route, and whether it will work for you.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 04:33:50 PM by Braithwaite »

juton

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2010, 05:07:25 PM »
At level 13 Monks have trouble being effective on the battlefield but don't despair! If you are using the Pathfinder bestiary then you don't need to optimize as hard.

If you want to reset him their are rebuilding rules in PHBII. If the DM doesn't allow those you can use the power Psychic Reformation to reselect your feats and skills.

If you can't rebuild you can go in two basic directions, Braitwaite suggests the first, Tome of Battle. Just start taking levels from that book from know on. Swordsage has the most synergy but a Warblade or Crusader could work as well. The second direction is take a level of Cleric or Druid and go into the PrC Sacred Fist from Complete Divine. The table says it doesn't get complete casting but the text does, and usually text trumps table. You may have to use Psychic Reformation to get the pre-reqs to enter Sacred Fist, but the class will still advance your Monk abilities and you'll be able to use your wisdom to be a caster which should boost your effectiveness.

Braithwaite

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2010, 08:47:41 PM »

If you want to reset him their are rebuilding rules in PHBII.

Memory Fail. Thanks Juton. I misremembered them as being in unearthed arcana.

Only 2 directions? You don't think psionics would also be a valid fix?

GawainBS

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 05:14:20 AM »

If you want to reset him their are rebuilding rules in PHBII.

Memory Fail. Thanks Juton. I misremembered them as being in unearthed arcana.

Only 2 directions? You don't think psionics would also be a valid fix?

I second the Psionics, especially with something like Tashalatora.

juton

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 09:55:49 AM »
Well I was thinking two directions such as 'casting' or 'maneuvers'. I'd consider Psionics to be a type of casting. Speaking of which, while Psychic Warrior is good, there may be a way to use Ardent with his Monk levels for full effect.

Ardent has a special clause, that you learn powers according to your Manifester Level, not your actual Ardent level. Say you can take Practiced Manifester (from Complete Psionic) twice, one level of Ardent on top of your 7 other hit die. You could start by learning 4th level powers (albeit from a limited list) and you'd be using your wisdom as your casting stat. It would take some effort to make this build work though.

EDIT: Assuming that rebuilding is not allowed, otherwise if it is allowed retraining some of those Monk levels is the way to go.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 10:05:32 AM by juton »

Khorus

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Re: Help Min/Maxing a Pathfinder Monk
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 04:50:12 PM »
Dragonborn mongrelfolk barbarian / frenzied berserker / primeval dire vulture? Thats like 50 con right?