Author Topic: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!  (Read 3476 times)

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Hound

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Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« on: January 08, 2010, 05:49:22 AM »
New campaign, same DM.  Here are my rules.
- I am the party skill monkey.
- 32 point build
- I'm less than 100% particular on the class make up, but I really want to use psionics (not psionic rogue, it sucks bad)
- no flaws.
- no dragon magazine (for the most part)
- no iajitsu focus (dm deems it too cheezy)
- Race:  Human or human variant that can pass for.
My thoughts:
S: 10  D: 15  C: 14  I: 14  W: 14  Ch: 10
Classes:
Rogue 1, Monk 1, PsyWar 1, Psywar 2, Rogue forward.
Feats:
H: Jutunbrud
1: TWF
3: Ascetic Rogue
PW1(4): Versatile Unarmed Strike
PW2(5): Psicrystal Affinity - Resolved (+2 Will)
6: Superior Unarmed Strike


I just wrote this down and already think it sucks.
Without using Psychic Rogue, i want to be able to fulfill the party's skillmonkey role using psionics.  I was going to be a psywar but one of my groupmates ran my ass over in the waaaaaahmbulance and took my chosen role.  Therefore, I'm the rogue.  Psychic rogue sucks.  We're starting in a world with diminished wealth (starting level 2, starting wealth = level 1 starting wealth so about 25%.)  I chose the monk level because I could get away without weapons with a scaling damage that could keep me in the game even if we fight undead (although I was planning on taking the level 2 rogue variant for 1/2 dice sneak attacking undead.)

Suggestions please...  I'm stumped.  Also, 3rd party materials and/or dragon magazine are under severe (nearly an auto no-no) scrutiny.

Thanks y'all!

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2010, 07:20:19 AM »
I wrote this recently. May be of help.
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awaken DM golem

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 06:20:01 PM »
Feat Rogue 2 / Monk 2 / PsyWar the rest of the way, would work; maybe a psionics PrC in there.
Erudite 1 as a dip gets the Psicrystal and an extra feat, and opens up the Items list.
Get Tashalatora feat to increase the Monk abilities via the PsyWar levels.
Any PsyWar build would work, but the extra feats via Feat Rogue and Monk will front load it some.
PsyWar advances the Search skill, but care would have to be taken with any other skills.

EDIT: oops, I forgot to Pimp a psi recharge set-up. Your party mates might whine, though  :rollseyes
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 06:22:07 PM by awaken DM golem »

Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 07:51:16 PM »
what is a psi recharge setup?   also, able learner and a high int would let me keep my roguey skills pretty close to where I want them, if I'm not way off base.

Also, my only real concern is that the erudite is an int manifester and the psiwar is a wisdom manifester.  I was planning on taking carmendine monk to get all my monk abilities to work off int... but I can't find a feat that'd let me do the same with psywar.  :/

Still at the drawing board, but i like the concept of using the martial rogue.  Why 2 levels of monk, btw?  Is 2 a much better build than just 1?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 07:55:06 PM by Hound »

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 08:16:44 PM »
Still at the drawing board, but i like the concept of using the martial rogue.  Why 2 levels of monk, btw?  Is 2 a much better build than just 1?

Because you get a second feat and evasion, which you can swap for quite a few tasty alternative features.
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Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 09:13:45 PM »
I think as a skillmonkey this build is going to sink like a stone...  Going from 8 SP per level, 4 SP per level and then down to 2 SP perlevel...  I don't think I could keep up.

I'm torn, because I'm worried that in a game of semi-optimizers, this character is going to fail at life. lol


Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 09:43:14 PM »
I think as a skillmonkey this build is going to sink like a stone...  Going from 8 SP per level, 4 SP per level and then down to 2 SP perlevel...  I don't think I could keep up.

I'm torn, because I'm worried that in a game of semi-optimizers, this character is going to fail at life. lol



If you are one or two ranks behind in some skills, it's not that big of a deal.
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Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 10:33:59 PM »
losing six skill points a level though is pretty big.  I've been pecking away at it last night and this afternoon and I can't find a way to make it feel...  competitive.  Our DM DM's pretty hard (i know that DM is not a verb) and rogues have a pretty high attrition rate.  I may have to re-concept for a more optimal rogue/skill monster.  I dunno, I just love the psionics and haven't really used them a lot, so i want to. :D

SolEiji

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 12:03:20 AM »
I have actually done this (success is still pending but I'm alive SO FAR) with a Factotum 3/Psion 17 build.  I'm behind on the powers, but I have an extreme Int focus, so I'm SADariffic.  The factotum helps me start out the skillmonkey business, giving me all skills to choose from.  I think it's humans with... Able Learner, that lets you keep all those skills as class skills (not such, I had a homebrew feat for a similar effect and I'm not human).  Practiced Manifester is a must, of course.

Basically I have all the power of a psion, short a few levels, with the ability to perform nice tricks like adding +3 to my skill checks or (more importantly) my Int score to my AC or attack.  The 2+Int matters less since most of my skill points will be coming from my juicy Int score, and I spend the extra points I got from Factotum on those skills that are trained only or strange.  You should be able to lower the number of factotum levels, depending if you want Int to AC or not, could up your survivability.  What with the armor prof. you gain and shields and the lack of ASF with psionics, good deal.

With psion you'll have plenty of powers as well so you can burn some on utility powers which your skills can't do.  Oh, and of course you're not limited to straight psion either... your biggest problem is making sure your class skills stay class skills when you go psion.

Does this help?
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Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2010, 05:40:43 AM »
It does, thanks Sol, I appreciate it.  We've got a psion in the group at the moment, but by taking a different discipline (he's a Telepath) we could definitely have different flavors that wouldn't conflict too much.

I don't know what ASF means though.  Care to elaborate?

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 07:42:22 AM »
losing six skill points a level though is pretty big.  I've been pecking away at it last night and this afternoon and I can't find a way to make it feel...  competitive.  Our DM DM's pretty hard (i know that DM is not a verb) and rogues have a pretty high attrition rate.  I may have to re-concept for a more optimal rogue/skill monster.  I dunno, I just love the psionics and haven't really used them a lot, so i want to. :D

There are no must-max skills. Hide 10 ranks or hide 13 ranks is not that different. The same goes for spot and move silently and many more. Moreover, you can't be competitive with skills, unless you use intimidate, UMD or knowledge devotion. Skills do not usually kill people, but they do give you an extra edge sometimes.

About ASF, he probably means arcane spell failure.

If you see this build going nowhere, check the swift hunter. They are great fun all-around characters, with damage, lots of skills and a good amount of customization.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 04:35:56 PM »
I'd suggest an Ardent/Swordsage multiclass, with just enough rogue to get Trapfinding (or get it through some other method). Be a human and take Able Learner. With Practiced Manifester, you can keep decent manifesting abilities and initiator level. You can head into Jade Phoenix Mage later, if you can stomach the loss of skill points, or see if your DM will let you make a psionic adapation of something like Unseen Seer.

I'm just starting a game with an ardent/crusader/jade phoenix mage, and started thinking that doing it with a swordsage might be better. It wouldn't fit my character concept as well, though (a "tank", not a "rogue").
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 07:05:15 PM »
Hey Dictum, I completely missed your post about swift hunter...  Sorry about that.  But it looks like a pretty spectacular idea to me.  Would this work (in you opinion?)  It's the only way I can find (I'm new to this non vanilla build thing) in order to get Open Locks as a class skill other than human paragon which i don't like very well for this kind of character.

1: Human 1 - Point Blank Shot
    Rogue 1 - Able Learner
    Martial Rogue 1 - Precise Shot
2: Scout 1 -
3: Scout 2 - Travel Devotion
4: Scout 3 -
5: Ranger 1 -
6: Scout 4 (Bonus) - Swift Hunter
6: Scout4 - ?
7: Ranger 2 -
Etc.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 07:08:38 PM »
Oh and here is a link to a psionic rogue-like character I made a while back. If I were redoing it, I'd definitely mix some swordsage in there though, and probably make it ardent based for manifesting...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 08:04:08 PM »
Wow Phaed, i read that build thread of yours and am either much more intelligent or crosseyed now. :D

I like your psychic rogue a lot, although I'd need to be human (to fit the world/concept I have.)  I'm gonna put it together and see what falls out.  I also need to find a way to put Able Learner in there so I can keep up some of the roguey skills as I'm the long term skilltard.

I like Elocator a lot though, that's a nifty PrC.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 09:22:08 PM »
Hey Dictum, I completely missed your post about swift hunter...  Sorry about that.  But it looks like a pretty spectacular idea to me.  Would this work (in you opinion?)  It's the only way I can find (I'm new to this non vanilla build thing) in order to get Open Locks as a class skill other than human paragon which i don't like very well for this kind of character.

1: Human 1 - Point Blank Shot
    Rogue 1 - Able Learner
    Martial Rogue 1 - Precise Shot
2: Scout 1 -
3: Scout 2 - Travel Devotion
4: Scout 3 -
5: Ranger 1 -
6: Scout 4 (Bonus) - Swift Hunter
6: Scout4 - ?
7: Ranger 2 -
Etc.

I think this is the best build. What do you need open lock for :P? Especially when a 2nd level spell (knock) can open all locks without a skill check. Plus you can break them, preferably with an adamantine blunt weapon.
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Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 09:32:44 PM »
Quote
specially when a 2nd level spell (knock) can open all locks without a skill check. Plus you can break them, preferably with an adamantine blunt weapon.

Our campaign is in an area where metal costs 3x the price, I should have mentioned that.  It was why I was looking at the monk build so that I could not worry about stone/bone weapons.  And I always thought you needed Open Lock because I've never had a rogue that could cast spells...  or had 2nd level spells.

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 09:36:37 PM »
Quote
specially when a 2nd level spell (knock) can open all locks without a skill check. Plus you can break them, preferably with an adamantine blunt weapon.

Our campaign is in an area where metal costs 3x the price, I should have mentioned that.  It was why I was looking at the monk build so that I could not worry about stone/bone weapons.  And I always thought you needed Open Lock because I've never had a rogue that could cast spells...  or had 2nd level spells.

Rogues have UMD, swift hunters have the magic domain from the cleric dip to activate wands.
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Hound

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2010, 09:39:41 PM »
don't be shy if I'm being an idiot, but even with UMD or a CC dip, I'd still be behind the curve because I'd have to be level 3 to use a wand of knock?  Also, what's extra favored class?  is that only if you're multiclassing and don't want to take the exp penalty?

Dictum Mortuum

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Re: Rogue/Monk/PW Suggestions wanted!
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2010, 09:50:35 PM »
don't be shy if I'm being an idiot, but even with UMD or a CC dip, I'd still be behind the curve because I'd have to be level 3 to use a wand of knock?  Also, what's extra favored class?  is that only if you're multiclassing and don't want to take the exp penalty?


Eh, until then a high-strength character can break the locks for you. Alternatively, a very simple lock is open lock DC of 20, so you can spend a cross-class rank in open lock skill (able learner helps here) and just take 20.
Yes, extra favored class is just for multiclassing xp penalties. If you don't use them, you can skip it.
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