What would you do if you were to play ddo?

[bogsnes]

DDO is dungeons and dragons online, a free online MMO which has almost exactly the same ruleset as ddo. So I wonder how you top optimisers would react to this, and what you would make, etc. (and how to totally break the game, as noone has discovered that yet xD )

www.ddo.com www.compendium.ddo.com (just a few links for you that want to read more)

Some things to keep in mind:
- All PHB classes except druid is in the game
- How much damage you do is really important here, like in all MMOs
- The staple CC spells exists there, but the mobs have SICK saving throws and SR at high levels, which prevents casters to go uber.
- Casters use a Spell point system with more SP (and spells costs 10 SP for 1st level spells, +5 SP per spell level, sorcs can get to about 3kish SP endgame)
- You can use as many metamagic feats as you want on spells (so a level 3 wizard could throw off an enlarged maximised empowered scorching ray)
- TWF usually beats THF because of it's attack speed, plus that charging doesn't exist as a mechanic.
- Not all PHB spells are in the game, and close to none for other sources (there are a few though)

Ill prolly write up more later but I cant think of more very important (still sleepy )

So... what would you do?

[KellKheraptis]

A few things :

1) Are there still some No Save/No SR direct damage spells?  Nuke in the pocket = anything not immune is dead.
2) Barring casters, Rangers seem really strong by this system (In NWN when you had Driz'zt, you were a god when you attacked that fast).
3) What all increases attack speed?  This seems more a Diablo II optimization by numbers and frame rates than D&D, given that THAT is the mechanic you want/need.
4) What are the defense mechanisms?  Is it "Saves, SR" like D&D, or is there a % Resistance system in place as well?

[Prime32]

I've played it. Ranged combat is annoying - I wish they'd add warlocks just so I could do it without having to keep track of ammo.

Remember, everyone needs a rogue.

[Garryl]

DDO has SR only apply to non-damage components of spells, and melee and ranged touch attacks are automatic hits unless the target literally moves out of the way. This makes Scorching Ray a royal pain to deal with at low-mid levels. In addition, touch range spells have been boosted to about a 20 ft. range, so healers have an easier time of it with everyone running around, and low level wizards can get by quite well with Shocking Grasp. Towards mid levels, hit points scale up so fast that you can't really rely on just nuking things before they get to you. Creatures easily have double the health or more of what a comparable creature would have under Pen and Paper rules. Ability damage only works as a debuff instead of an alternate win condition as monsters have much higher stats and total ability damage taken is capped at around 10 points per stat for monsters. That, and the very long stretches without being able to rest (resource-wise, probably equivalent to 5-7 encounters in PnP, and often many more) mean that spellcasters are usually relegated to buffing, battlefield control, and very efficient damage spells like Wall of Fire and Save or Dies.

   Rangers are pretty strong TWFers, especially with a one level dip in Rogue for 1d6+3 sneak attack, or a one level dip in Monk for +10% attack speed with monk weapons. At 6th level, they can get a +10% boost to TWF attack speed, and they can reduce the TWF attack penalty by 1 at 12th, and by 2 at 18th. They also get a boost from their small spell list. Ram's Might (Rng 1) gives +2 Str and +2 damage, and it stacks with everything else currently in the game. Barkskin (Rng 2) is also commonly desired as it is the only natural armor booster around, and only Rangers can cast it (since there are no Druids in DDO). I played a Ranger 6/Rogue 2 up to 8th level, and I reliably topped the kill charts in most groups without a Barbarian.
   Barbarians are as or more powerful with two handed weapons. In DDO, two handed weapons give you an extra attack at -5 or so for reduced damage once every few swings. This plus Rage can add up to quite a bit. On normal and hard difficulty dungeons, Power Attack can add even more damage, although the hit penalty is often too severe on elite difficulty.


I only played DDO to 8th level, so I can't comment on high level play, and my knowledge of actually playing a caster is limited mostly to what I saw, rather than played.

[bogsnes]

Another thing about casters.... nukers can do 1000+ damage... but because of the totally inflated HP of mobs at cap (5000+) it isnt that effective...

And also, it uses an action point system where you get 4 AP per level before you level... these can be spent to get +3 sneak attack damage for example, or +10% damage with fire and ice spells. The things get more expensive the more ranks you buy, to a maximum of 3-4 ranks for most things. And there is a min level in the class for it too, so yeah...

[RobbyPants]

If you want a pretty good opinion on the matter, check out this thread at TGD.  It looks like Roy has a pretty good handle on the matter and has a good idea of what works and what doesn't.  His first post on the matter starts about half way down the first page of the thread.

I guess the khopesh sword is supposed to be pretty good because it has a crit of 19-20/x3, or something stupid like that.

[bogsnes]

Well, I know the game fairly well. I just wanted to check if the top end optimisers could find ways to break that too. Or make the max possible dps build, etc.

[Prime32]

And also, it uses an action point system where you get 4 AP per level before you level... these can be spent to get +3 sneak attack damage for example, or +10% damage with fire and ice spells. The things get more expensive the more ranks you buy, to a maximum of 3-4 ranks for most things. And there is a min level in the class for it too, so yeah...

There's a bit of disparity in the things you can buy. At one point my options included +1 Hide, lesser haste as an SLA, +1 to an ability score, and an iron defender companion stronger than me (though a bit too trigger-happy with its grease effect).

[SorO_Lost]

I'm still a noob at optimizing in DDO. My caster kept getting his ass pounded into the ground. Srsly, it takes 3 scorching rays to kill a kobold on hard mode in a 4th level adventure, given that that character's cl is low enough he only gets one ray per spell you probably can see the problem. So I 'donated' money to the server, akin to tossing money to help for hosting fees in free servers for other mmos and rolled up a monk. Now I freaking own the game. Why? Monks have everything.

First, there is a large amount of traps. Tons in fact. Without a rogue traps cannot be dealt with as nearly every single one of them never runs out of ammo and just continually spray acid until you wonder how the hell you're not swimming in it yet. Anyway, the monk packs good reflex saves, high dex (for TWF), the water stance (+2~+4 all saves), and improved evasion. I ignore traps and just run around almost never failing my save and taking damage from them. Warning though, you may become dependent on evasion and forget when you relog into your caster that traps hurt...

Secondly, healing. Unless you dip into Cleric/Paladin/Ranger your healing is massively limited. You'll probably repeat the find the old guy in the factory quest a dozen times at low levels just for a cloak that gives 1/day CLWs. So your primary form of healing will by 340ish gold potions of CMWs. The monk? Well he spends 10ki from is fast regenerating pool and heals 1~2hp per hit on the enemy and after using that attack three times he heals the entire party for a low amount (about half a CMWs, until your level is high enough). This yields constant healing all the damn time, plus the Monk as the ability to sit down for 30 seconds and heal almost all of his hit points every 5 minutes though Wholeness of Body.

Finally, for solo support the Monk can burn ki to mimic the effects of restoration/remove curse spells and his light path combos can give him blur, inspire, and immunity to stunning/sleep all of which can buff the entire party too. Then there is the clicky thing. You will collect tons of X/day items to click on and cast spells. It's kinda like being a wizard in D&D. You can cast Summon Monster II twice a day, invisibility 3 times, sleep 3 times, grease 3 times, stinking cloud once, bless 3 times, aid once, rage 3 times, etc (thats just some that I have). Only your not a wizard but anyone.

Not saying the Monk is the best class, but damn it makes soloing stuff a lot easier and I'm almost never turned down party wise as long as I include 'light way' or something there of in my description. It's like the casters love my free -25% SP costs buff I give them or something.

***

Someone on the linked thread said gold was worthless, it's not. And while yes you can seemly rack up a lot of money by looting a so called whopping 100 gold from a chest, don't be fooled by it. The reason your looting 100gold from a 2nd level chest is becuase 100gold is completely worthless, your tall tell sign of course is your second level and accumulating 150gp per adventure... Expect to burn 3k+ on healing if you don't have a cleric, another 2~5 depending on deaths on adventures if your over your head as some quests are a lot harder than their advertised level and doing those on elite pretty much requires you to be too high in level for the adventure. Buying upgraded version of your gear also demands a lot of gold as the player economy is littered with stupid people that for example demand 150k for a 5k bottle of air because there is just so much underwater swimming in the game to rationalize the need for underwater breathing (*cough* I have that spell 1/day too, but who uses it?). Want a stone of luck that gives +1 luck to skills, saves, attack and damage rolls? 1.5mil. Want a stone that gives +1 luck to skills & saves on top of +5 XP per quest? Free, it's a quest reward offered in a 5th level adventure. Oh yes, players are f'ing stupid. Enjoy your chest of 100gp if you want, the only thing your buying with it is food to rp the idea your character needs to eat & drink rather than living solely off healing magic and blue rocks sticking out of the ground.

***

And the last gift of knowledge I have is spell damage is wonky. Cl 5 fireball is not 5d6 damage but 1d3+3x5 and spell enhancers (up to +50%) and empower/maximize is stacked in an rather odd formula. (base damage) * (1+enhancement% + potency%) * (critical factor) * (metamagic factor) is the formula being passed around on the forums. The 1d3+3 instead of 1d6 thing only applies to spells and seems to be an intended boost towards spellcasters by minimizing the poor rolls for them.

[bogsnes]

One thing... scorching ray in ddo is kinda crap until you get more rays... and dont start to shine till you get all three at 11. Use niac's cold ray at lower levels for your DD needs. Suggestion and charm person is awesome too. And hypnotism.

In addition, the game is more about groups than any other MMO. Press O, because there you can look for groups, or join other groups to play with. And so that it is said... Yeah, monks are good solo, but that will partially change. At higher levels, it is almost impossible to solo anything without sick gear if you arent cleric fvs wiz or sorc since you miss any AoE.

And for your sorcerer... well.... he will probably be pretty boring to play till level 8. thats how it is. At level 8 however, you get firewall, which possibly is the most fun (and one of the best spells) in the whole game. Just kite mobs in and out of it.

[SorO_Lost]

Yeah firewall is handy becuase the AIs ignore it. Just lure them back and forth into it.
Too busy on my monk to play my sorcerer though.

btw, this is a Stone of Good Luck, worth on average 2.5mil in the auctions.
Pay 10 bucks for points and buy Delera's Tomb (and other stuff) and your guaranteed one of these. The second adventure alone pays out over 8,000XP at a point where 4k is considered a huge reward too.

Edit: btw, the module is partially narrated by Gary Gygax too.

[bogsnes]

well, you cant sell it... But it is awesome XP ^^

And narrated by Gary Gygax ^^

Favorite modules: Vale of twilight > Deleras tomb > Tangleroot Gorge

I have only reached level 13 yet on my highest level char tho...

My self made max dps build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=223475 ^^

[SorO_Lost]

Your levels seem kinda spread out, but as long as it works right? I am waiting until I am high enough to pick up the Vale, I hear it's awesome.