Author Topic: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?  (Read 2447 times)

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Hound

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I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« on: December 29, 2009, 05:03:05 AM »
Ask a simple question time.  What's this mean?  MAD?

DerWille

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2009, 05:39:16 AM »
Multiple Attribute Dependency. It means that a particular character needs to have way too many high stats to be viable. A classic example, a Monk.

 Monks need strength for attack and damage. Dexterity for initiative and AC. Constitution for hp. And Wisdom for more AC and their stunning fist DCs. Intelligence is nice to have on them to since they get 4+int mod skill points a level off a pretty good list.

Hound

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2009, 06:02:18 AM »
Thank you.  after reading your post, it completely makes sense. :D

DavidWL

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2009, 06:03:59 AM »
While we are at it, SAD = single attribute dependent, which is the opposite of MAD, and is a very good thing.

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JaronK

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2009, 06:08:41 AM »
Indeed.  And especially at lower point buys, this can really matter... a Wizard at 22 Point Buy can still have a 16 Int and a decent Con.  But a Monk is pretty screwed.  Even at higher point buys, a Monk's going to need to boost a lot more stats than a Wizard.  This one also shows up a lot in Gestalt builds... Wizard 20//Sorcerer 20 is often actually weaker than Wizard 20 because while you have more spells per day, your lower Int score (due to resources spent on boosting Charisma) reduces the saves against your spells where it matters.

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telehax

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2009, 09:43:46 AM »
Wizard 20//Sorcerer 20 is often actually weaker than Wizard 20 because while you have more spells per day, your lower Int score (due to resources spent on boosting Charisma) reduces the saves against your spells where it matters.

Uh. It's a simple matter to get a +6 charisma item, then you can use sorcerer for buffs and utility and spend wizard on your shenanigans. Or vice versa. I see what point you're trying to make but it's just not true.

Alastar

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2009, 02:11:11 PM »
It's possible, but it's not as good as having, say. wizard 20/beguiler 20, both on the same stat, since it costs less to boost one stat.

Kal Zakath

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2009, 01:09:31 AM »
Wizard 20//Sorcerer 20 is often actually weaker than Wizard 20 because while you have more spells per day, your lower Int score (due to resources spent on boosting Charisma) reduces the saves against your spells where it matters.

Uh. It's a simple matter to get a +6 charisma item, then you can use sorcerer for buffs and utility and spend wizard on your shenanigans. Or vice versa. I see what point you're trying to make but it's just not true.

I would probably do it the opppsite. Use the Sorcerer for most of the in combat shenanigans (Greater Arcane Fusion and such) where you cast the same spell alot. Leaving wizard to diversity where it shines. The difference is that if you play the spell choice right, you can have most spells that allow a DC end up on the Sorcerer side and those that don't end up on the wizard. The casterlevel boosting items usually say either any casterlevel or any arcane casterlevel so i would apply to both.

JaronK

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2009, 01:43:54 AM »
Uh. It's a simple matter to get a +6 charisma item, then you can use sorcerer for buffs and utility and spend wizard on your shenanigans. Or vice versa. I see what point you're trying to make but it's just not true.

+6 items aren't always that cheap, and you could have bought a lot of things with that money (especially at certain levels).  Plus there's more than just enhancement bonuses to stats.  What about Tomes for Inhearent bonuses and things like that?  Meanwhile, you gain very little... a few more spells per day, half the time not even at your highest casting level.  It's certainly possible to be stronger, but it's also possible to be weaker.  Any day where you didn't actually need to dip into the other class's casting is a day where you were a tiny bit weaker than you would have been single classed.  As others have said, a Beguiler//Wizard is distinctly stronger, but a Sorcerer//Wizard often isn't.

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deuxhero

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2009, 03:00:47 AM »
It means the frenzy zerkers are awesome looking, but really impractical. </bad joke>


And a Sorc//wiz is bad because you still have one action.

Havok4

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2009, 03:39:07 AM »
Which is also why Wizard // Factotum is awesome.

Bozwevial

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2009, 03:49:48 AM »
And a Sorc//wiz is bad because you still have one action.

To be fair, sorcerers get Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge.

kurashu

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Re: I keep seeing the "to avoid getting too MAD" what is this?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2009, 01:36:38 PM »
And a Sorc//wiz is bad because you still have one action.

To be fair, sorcerers get Arcane Fusion and Arcane Spellsurge.

That's why you do favored soul/sorcerer/geomancer and get DMM as well.

...Or just be a Sharn.