Playing Warforged

[heffroncm]

Wizards put up the first articles of the 4e Dungeon and Dragon yesterday.  The one that most caught my eye was their "Playing Warforged" article.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/364_Warforged.pdf

With this information, Warforged are the most complete and supported race in the game, with two racial paragon paths, more racial feats than any other, and special racial equipment rules that some feats play off.

This content has me really on the fence.  On the one hand, I think it's great to see this sort of information being released.  On the other, I know that this is the sort of content they are going to be charging for in the future, and it bothers me to see what seems to be clear evidence of a moneygrubbing evil business plan.  Dole it out in small doses with a monthly fee attached.

What do you folks think of it?

[Runestar]

My first thought was how different the MM warforged was compared to the current dragon version. This makes me wonder if the business model is going to be something like hellgate: you get barebones stuff from core books (because converting monsters to playable races was probably of secondary importance for the MM), but can pay to unlock "superior material" from the online website.

The reason why I am hesitant to sign up is because I have no assurance over the quality of the material I will be getting, or that the info I am receiving will be the type I want. At least with splatbooks, I can first browse through them, and buy them only if I feel that the content inside is useful enough to justify me spending good money on it. For example, the designers may put up rules for playing a true dragon, chock full with racial feats, encounter powers and paragon paths, but I may not be interested in playing a dragon (however well done the article is). I might want more rules for fleshing out my orc or minotaur PC more fully instead.

Also, will we be seeing the online material consolidated into a splatbook which we can purchase in the future? It irks me that wotc would be putting so much effort to doing it right for their online stuff (the warforged article shows that they are indeed capable of churning out top-notch quality material) that they neglect splatbooks.

Indeed, one of my main concerns is that the future splatbooks will not be fully fleshed out, but instead require you to get the online subscription to get the complete set. Might we be seeing scenarios like say, martial handbook having an excerpt stating "For more info on XXX, please refer to the wotc website at ...."

[heffroncm]

That's a worry of mine as well, Runestar.  I hope WotC can learn from the stunning example of the original PlayOnline site and whatever Final Fantasy strategy guide that contained virtually zero information, and continually relayed folks to the web.

I'd hate to think that what we're asked to pay for is just "early access" to content that will be appearing in a splatbook down the road.  That said, this Warforged information virtually has to appear in the Eberron campaign setting, and should not be an 'online only' resource.  Kind of feel both ways about it...

Another thing that kind of irks me, looking at the Table of Contents, Dragon seems to have a LOT more information directed at DM's than it should.  A mini-adventure, two monster articles, an article on enviromental hazards, none of this seems appropriate for the player's half of magazines.

[EntropicShadow]

Not really sure what to think about the article.  It is nice to have the warforged fully fleshed out, and seeing this gives me hope for goblins and shadar-kai.  But on the other hand, I don't like the feats replacing your utility powers.  Just like the multiclass replacement feats, it seems like spending a feat for no real gain.  Racial paragon paths are neat, but overall I had a feeling of meh.

I am curious about the paragon paths.  Juggernaut lists "defender role" as a prerequisite.  So Fighter and Paladin (and soon, Swordmage) qualify, but what about those who take the Fighter and Paladin multiclass feats?  Do taking those make you count as a defender? Or do they only let you qualify for things with Fighter and Paladin as a prerequisite?   

[Momar]

Hmmm.... now I really want to play a warforged warlord/wizard. Embed an orb into my chest and bam, Matrix of Leadership.

[yellerSumner]

I'm amused, because thematically, the Lifeseeker seems perfect for the warforged I never got a chance to play. 


I find the landscape orientation of the articles entertaining.  However, unless they're planning to release a printer friendly version of the magazines, then the argument that you can print the articles out if you want a hard copy is kinda defeated.  I said I wouldn't pay $15 + ink, and I'm am definitely not paying $15 + that much ink. 

Another thing that kind of irks me, looking at the Table of Contents, Dragon seems to have a LOT more information directed at DM's than it should.  A mini-adventure, two monster articles, an article on enviromental hazards, none of this seems appropriate for the player's half of magazines.

Which is the mini-adventure? 
If Dragon isn't supposed to have monster articles, then Paizo was doing it wrong for at least the 3ish years I was subscribed.  And I know there was at least one that had to do with the environmental hazards of traveling to other planes, but there were probably a few more than just that.

[heffroncm]

Yeah, I'm flat out wrong on my Dragon comment.  I've never been a subscriber of the magazines, never had money, and have never used any material out of them.  It's been described to me that Dungeon is the DM's magazine, and Dragon is the Player's magazine, and that's how my opinions were formed.

[brislove]

I'm kinda excited to see what they will be doing with races in the future. I'm certain that all the races will get content like that, I expect most of it will be in books however, such as campaign settings/races of ect. I fully expect the draconomicon to have plenty of dragonborn stuff in it.

[Runestar]

According to enworld, july's issue of dragon will include a 4e update of the artificer. Tempting...

But this just seems to reinforce my fears that they will indeed be reserving most of the good stuff for subscribers...

[heffroncm]

According to enworld, july's issue of dragon will include a 4e update of the artificer. Tempting...

But this just seems to reinforce my fears that they will indeed be reserving most of the good stuff for subscribers...

Well, there's also two other options: Dragon and Dungeon races and classes will mainly be early access to material that will appear in later books (which subscribers would have access to anyway, through the Compendium), or that the stuff showing up now is more basic in nature because it is freely available to everyone (can't really do Eberron without Warforged and Artificers).  Either way, I don't think you'll HAVE to be a subscriber to get the material you need to play the game, just extras and/or early access.

[Bozwevial]

Such an elementary error on WotC's part. It should obviously be "meatbag" instead of "flesh bag."

Seriously, though: I'm going to be irritated if I have to spend money to buy the books and then more money every month to make the half-assed effort WotC put out usable.

[heffroncm]

Seriously, though: I'm going to be irritated if I have to spend money to buy the books and then more money every month to make the half-assed effort WotC put out usable.

Let's be honest: every bit of DDI subscriber Dragon and Dungeon material will be available for illicit download within hours of it being posted on Wizard's website.  The reasons to pay for a subscription are because you think they are producing a quality enough product to continue to support the company, and because you want access to the software tools.  These reasons are enough for me, time will tell if they are enough for others.

[Bozwevial]

Seriously, though: I'm going to be irritated if I have to spend money to buy the books and then more money every month to make the half-assed effort WotC put out usable.

Let's be honest: every bit of DDI subscriber Dragon and Dungeon material will be available for illicit download within hours of it being posted on Wizard's website.  The reasons to pay for a subscription are because you think they are producing a quality enough product to continue to support the company, and because you want access to the software tools.  These reasons are enough for me, time will tell if they are enough for others.

Well, given that my computer can't handle the software tools (judging by the specs they have on the site), I'd have to be getting enough out of the articles to justify paying. I may wind up doing it because I just can't justify illegal PDFs to myself.

[heffroncm]

Seriously, though: I'm going to be irritated if I have to spend money to buy the books and then more money every month to make the half-assed effort WotC put out usable.

Let's be honest: every bit of DDI subscriber Dragon and Dungeon material will be available for illicit download within hours of it being posted on Wizard's website.  The reasons to pay for a subscription are because you think they are producing a quality enough product to continue to support the company, and because you want access to the software tools.  These reasons are enough for me, time will tell if they are enough for others.

Well, given that my computer can't handle the software tools (judging by the specs they have on the site), I'd have to be getting enough out of the articles to justify paying. I may wind up doing it because I just can't justify illegal PDFs to myself.

There is a better option for you.  The Rouse has said that buying Dragon and Dungeon in full PDF form each month will be an option, and it will cost 'less than newstand and less than a DDI subscription.'  So you can get both magazines in single files for less than the subscription price.

[Bozwevial]

Sounds like a winner to me.

[Commx]

If I'm getting them at all, it will probably be in singles, about two weeks after they come out. By then, this forum or another one should have discussed the content enough to know whether this particular issue is worth the money or not.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Eh.  I say go for the downloads, because WotC is on crack as of late and I don't like feeding their habit.

Also, I'd say that since the Warforged racial description seems to invalidate the need for one of the racial feats printed in the same article, go with the MM rules for the base racial stats and do everything else as presented.

[heffroncm]

Seems easier to just take the feat text out of the base racial power.  Let's see if they can fix this one as fast as the Tiefling Warlord when someone points it out.

Upon further read, I don't see what you're talking about.  I thought you were refering to the Warforged Resolve Racial Power and the Imutability Racial Feat.  However, Imutability changes it so you can make an Immediate Save against any Condition or Ongoing Damage.  Without the feat, you can only Save against Ongoing Damage that can be ended with a Save.