Author Topic: Some thoughts on cheese...  (Read 7729 times)

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Tenebrous Apostate

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Some thoughts on cheese...
« on: December 14, 2009, 09:41:02 PM »
Some time ago I've been reading a thread about a first lvl hard campaign. One of the many ideas for taugh game came from the Mad Linguist. It was suggested that a first level wizard could get Precautious apprentice and cast summon mirror mefit. The mefit itself is a low HD creature that has an amazing ability. Simulacrum 1/day. The idea was that if anything can be created through simulacrum, one of the options was the creation of an Efreeti. An Efreeti that grants wishes (3 of them to be precise). The author branded the idea cheesy for reasons unfathomable to me exept one. The simulacrum spell requires 12 hours to cast and the mirror mefti spell has a duration in rounds. But I said NAY!! this strategy is not cheesy!! A human cleric of aproximatly 3rd level can pull it of with high enough Cha for DMM. What I want is thought on maximizing the strategy's effectivenes and theoretical grounds on banning it by a DM. (It might be a bit broken but I'm pretty sure it's RAW)
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 10:36:23 PM »
IIRC, it's a standard action SLA (since they use it in encounters)


And if it wasn't completely obvious by the powerthirst vibe, I was not at all serious in suggesting that (even though it works).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 10:49:32 PM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 10:46:05 PM »
Just checked the Sp description to verify. So what we are looking at is a  wish granting Efreeti in one round for... nothing? No 1000+ gp materials and part of Efreeti required... well people.. start summoning!! I know I will

Mad linguist has all copyright to this idea yet no rights have been reserved yet  :P thanks m8
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 10:48:27 PM by Tenebrous Apostate »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 10:50:02 PM »
I'm not the originator - I saw it on 330 a while ago and forgot about it.
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Vinom

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 10:56:31 PM »
Where can I find this mirror mephit?
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

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Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 11:35:00 PM »
Expedition to the Demonweb pits. You'll also find the spell to summon it
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 04:32:36 AM »
Well, I know my circle wizards' favorite summons now  :lmao
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Negative Zero

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 06:24:59 AM »
It just gets easier and easier.

Edit: How easy, you ask? Well, I'll tell you. Precocious Apprentice requires arcane caster level 1. I do believe there is a feat (Magical Training?) that grants you the ability to cast a couple of arcane cantrips, that means that anyone with two feats (humans, anything with a flaw*) and an 8 point buy can get a Simulacrum going and can become Pun-pun. Wheee!

*Except Dragonwrought Kobolds. I like to think of the Kobold as the anti-Human. You get one less feat, but you have many ability score adjustments and a bunch of random racial traits. Anyway, yeah, they need two feats for this, unless they aren't Dragonwrought (blasphemy).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 06:30:32 AM by Negative Zero »

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 07:00:59 AM »
A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell:

Simulacrum
Illusion (Shadow)
Level:    Sor/Wiz 7
Components:    V, S, M, XP
Casting Time:    12 hours

ok but: a 3rd level cleric could divine metamagic persistant sumon mirror mephit...
and at higher levels you can persistant it anyway and save a bunch of xp and gold!
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Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 08:26:25 AM »
Hmmm. it was an honest mistake. so it seems that non clerics of low levels must find other tricks...
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Havok4

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 12:48:37 PM »
Actually check the action rules.
"The casting time of a spell-like ability is 1 standard action, unless the ability description notes otherwise."
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsincombat.htm

Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 01:08:52 PM »
The ability or spell description acctualy. I double checked...
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Bloody Initiate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2009, 02:16:32 PM »
Even if it takes 12 hours, Summon the Mephit before you go to bed, tell them to cast the spell. They START casting it and disappear after a few rounds (That's not their teleportation, so it doesn't necessarily interrupt the spell). Wake up the next morning, prepare your spells (9 hours past) and in nearly 3 hours summon the same mephit as they finish the spell.

If you're being cheesy, you may as well get as retarded as possible, because it's not like there's a line to avoid crossing...
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2009, 02:30:41 PM »
won't work because there is no way to summon a specific creature. Some of the calling spells let you but none of the summon x does.
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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2009, 02:35:54 PM »
You could summon the mephit, bribe it to have it come back under it's own volition, and cast the spell for you.
A player once asked me if there was any way to make a Tarrasque more evil... 3 sessions later he was stoned with D20s as the PC led an exidus out of the path of a Dire Tarrasque of Legendary Wonder.

Quote from:  Sarda the Sage
You're a quick thinker and spiteful, I can respect that. You won't be killed, Bikke

Never trust a smiling laughing chuckling grinning emotionless drunk, you know what Never Trust a DM!

78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature

Pulling off Pun-pun in 26 rounds

N00bs, because all gamers have to start somewhere

"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!"

Remember, Mobs are at least as stupid as their dumbest member.

Tenebrous Apostate

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 03:03:39 PM »
I've been thinking... It's higher level than what we talk about here but would Planar Anchor be of any use to keep the summoned critter bound?
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Negative Zero

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 06:34:49 PM »
Summon the Mephit, bribe it, and convince it to make a simulacrum of you when it's unsummoned.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 08:55:10 PM »
Couldn't an Ilumian wizard do this at level 1, given a couple flaws tops with their Pseudo-DMM?
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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 08:57:02 PM »
Couldn't an Ilumian wizard do this at level 1, given a couple flaws tops with their Pseudo-DMM?

are summon spells even legit for persist?

Negative Zero

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Re: Some thoughts on cheese...
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 09:47:52 PM »
If they have fixed range. Ocular Summons, perhaps?