Author Topic: Making a War Hulk  (Read 4095 times)

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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2009, 10:59:38 PM »
That seems to add up fine (and is the reason most PCs should not take Half Minotaur in the early levels.)

large size, 12 strength, 4 con, 4 natural armor, a natural attack, scent and a bonus feat?

Simply put, it's a more powerful template then Half Dragon. for +1 LA.
It's good to see people using the correct size bonuses :)
But about the half-dragon thing. WotC probably put a ridiculous LA because anything that is a dragon has to be roflhaxxorz pwnage! right? right?  :banghead
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Runestar

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2009, 11:17:35 PM »
Do you actually think wotc would allow +12 str at just +1LA?

I think it is simply a case of bad editing. At best, the template should add +4str and increase your size (but with none of the stat bonuses for bumping up a size category, they are already subsumed into the benefits of said template).

As for half-dragon, I think it is a good example of what a borderline weak LA+3 template might look like. But considering that most PCs (ie: those medium sized ones) won't really be benefiting from its natural weapons, nor will they be getting wings or the extra skill points on top of being saddled with an increasingly useless breath weapon, I think its LA can be safely ramped down to +2 (we already have the lolth-touched at +1, after all).

Seems about right for +8str/+2con/int/cha and +4NA. You will be hard pressed to maximise the use of all those stat boosts unless you are a paladin anyways.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2009, 11:25:53 PM »
I think its LA can be safely ramped down to +2 (we already have the lolth-touched at +1, after all).

Or give wings to all sizes.

JaronK

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2009, 02:08:11 AM »
Do you actually think wotc would allow +12 str at just +1LA?

Yes, for the same reason they allowed you to have any planar trait you could visualize via genesis, and for the same reason they made dusts of sneezing and choking and candles of invocation so cheap.  They weren't thinking when they did it.

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I think it is simply a case of bad editing. At best, the template should add +4str and increase your size (but with none of the stat bonuses for bumping up a size category, they are already subsumed into the benefits of said template).

The template specifically says you get the stat changes for changing size.  Seriously, it's written right in there.  It's not bad editing, it's bad design... but it is indeed intentional.

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Brainpiercing

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2009, 05:49:38 AM »

Also, could I combine the fullround mighty swing with a bullrush? So bullrush the first target then hit the other two? Regardless the dungeon crasher is too ridiculous on damage. He will totally TPK everyone.
A two-level dungeoncrasher isn't nearly so bad. But I would still just go with Awesome blow, at least if your party isn't likely to one-round this guy. (Which should happen if no mooks are present and with a half-way optimised party.)

Is there any way you could get Blindsense or even Blindsight on this guy? That way a simple Glitterdust won't take him out of the fight.

DerWille

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2009, 06:13:26 AM »
The only thing I found was Uncanny Scent in Savage Species. It lets you pin point a scent that's 20ft away and then with Improved Scent I could just walk in their general direction until then.

Which leads to...

If he can point point the source of a scent and decides to attack there, does the defender still gain total concealment?

Brainpiercing

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2009, 06:24:46 AM »
The only thing I found was Uncanny Scent in Savage Species. It lets you pin point a scent that's 20ft away and then with Improved Scent I could just walk in their general direction until then.

Which leads to...

If he can point point the source of a scent and decides to attack there, does the defender still gain total concealment?
You're still attacking a square, AFAIK. Even so, if you gave him normal Knockback, then a full-attack on a square is still likely to send someone flying.
Now that I think about it:
There is also the Hearing the Air maneuver, and some skill trick that lets you pinpoint invisible people within 30ft. I think there's a ruling somewhere that if you're blind, everyone is invisible, but I'm not sure.
That being said, I would not over-optimise this, because Glitterdust is just ONE of those nasty will-save spells that will likely take him out of the fight or severely hamper him. Getting him a way to attack blind is, however, still a good way of overcoming a lot of other BFC options, so I would give it some thought.

DerWille

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 06:36:34 AM »
Trust me, I'm not trying over optimize him. It's just entertaining the thought of how to make him stronger. Sort of how I'm probably not going to combine it with knock-down because that would give him the ability to hit three squares at once and trip everyone in them as a standard action. Then I could combine that with Improved Trip and get a second attack on all of them.

 However awesome blow is awesome. Hit someone and they go flying backwards.

 Back to blind sight stuff, if we had the combo of Scent + Improved Scent + Uncanny Scent + Blind-Fight would reduce the power of concealment, wouldn't it?

EDIT: Sentences made no sense.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 10:51:01 AM by DerWille »

Runestar

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2009, 10:15:50 AM »
Don't forget the AoO the PC gets when you send him flying via awesome blow (since he is leaving a square you threaten).

If your players want proof, refer them to the battlebriar entry in MM3.  :)
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Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Making a War Hulk
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2009, 03:52:48 PM »
I was always a fan of getting the Goliath Barb levels, where rage makes you large, then taking this and dungeoncrasher, later on some Frenzied Berserker for the imp power attack. As just the Barb/DC/WH, you're a decent fighter, but nothing too terrible, then BAM! You rage and hulk out, and your enemies shit hits the wall with them at roughly death-miles-per-hour. Fun builds, mean to sick on unsuspecting PCs.  :D

Ah, but yeah, if you're just toning it down, maybe avoid dungeon crasher altogether... +6dwhatevs and treating them like pinballs is still a mite bit too rough.  :P