Author Topic: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm  (Read 2609 times)

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Dusk Eclipse

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Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« on: December 10, 2009, 12:57:27 AM »
I find really fun to build gestalt characters, but this two I just thought up are specially fintersting (at least to me); but I want to have some of your invaluable input.

32 point buy
Dual progresion classes are allowed
No two prestige classes at the same time
No flaws or traits
No LA-Buy off
Race: Dark Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold using the Races of dragon Web Enchancement for kobolds

Stub build  Dark template/Rogue 19// Sorcerer 5/Unseen Seer 10/ Spellwarp Sniper 5
Principal feats: dragonwrought, point blank shot, versatile spellcaster, craven, practiced spellcaster. draconic wings (fluff reasons and because not wasting a spell known on fly it good IMO)


The other one is a ToB build

Race: Dark Human

Stub Build Cloistered Cleric 5/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 / Something that advances Cleric spellcasting, maybe ordained champion (refluffed)//Dark template /Swordsage 15 or 18/ cloistered cleric 5 or 2
The cloistered clerics on the second side of the build are to be put when RKV and Ordained champion loose CL

This build relies on a hombrew feat that let the swordsage get Devoted Spirit as a Discipline instead of one from the swordsage list (thinking on either Desert Wind or Setting sun
Principal feats: Wayward path (the homebrewed feat mentioned before), adaptive style,  shadow hand, Gloom razor and possibly DMM persist spell
Domains: Knowledge (traded for Knowledge devotion), War (from ordained Champion), Undeath, and planning


So what do you think? good ideas? too weak? too cheesy? just plain bland

Rooster

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 09:19:26 AM »
What's available to you, book-wise? (Only WOTC? Dragon? Third party?)

Are you using Pathfinder stuff or normal 3.5 stuff?

And what are you trying to do with each build, other than sneaky? The first build seems to be a rogue/sorcerer archer and the second is... some sort of divine/swordsage hybrid, but I don't know what you're trying to optimize towards, persay.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 10:07:01 AM »
I have access to most of WotC books, Dragon may be aproved on case by case basis, but I don't have any dragon magazine.
And it is 3.5

I don't really have any idea concerning the builds other than being sneaky and skillmonkey type

The first one doing BIG damage to a single target was the first thought I had with this build. A spellwarped wings of flurry plus a 13d6 (or so) sneak attacks seems nice, maybe If I cahin it or splited it would be

The second one is buff myself up, then smack enemies with manoubers and maybe some blasting or battlefield control with the other spells.

Rooster

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 05:24:17 AM »
For your first build, try looking at Daggerspell Mage? It's a rogue/arcane PRC, which may fit what you're trying to do.

For your second build, I've done the self-buffing cleric before (but our group's house rules ban persistent spell cheese and some of the divine metamagic cheese) and it just felt like I spent all my time buffing and not just stabbing things. If you're going to be a buffer, it's probably a bit better to be either arcane-side (and take War Weaver to just lob all your buffs out at once quickly, to get to the fun) and/or focus on group buffs. If you just want to stab things with some of the nicer self buffs, consider a swordsage with the adaptation that lets you take a small number of arcane spells instead of maneuvers.

Can you take templates "on one side" and have it not count as a prestige class? There are several that increase Wisdom nicely. You can also dip into Paladin 2 and take Serenity (Dragon #306), which now gives you wis to saves as well. Suddenly, you're rather sturdy with some potentially annoying offensive options. :)

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 07:07:52 AM »
yeah, if you can pick up templates on one side, increasing wisdom with phrenic is a solid choice.

Add on "magic in the blood" as a feat if you can afford it.

Oh, and your kobold qualifies for "singer of concordance" at level 2 thanks to dragon type grandfathering him past the normal prereqs.
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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 05:29:28 PM »
Wait, Rogue 19, unseen seer 10 and potentially hunters eye as well?  That's a ****-ton of sneak attack.

Try to see if you can get Precision Strike from Dragon mag.  It's like reverse power attack for Rogues.  Trade a SA die for +2 to hit, as many die as you want (up to the max you have).

Throw in Greater Invis, and you'll never miss again.  ^^

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 01:47:43 AM »
Phrenic template... that was the template that made you psionic right?... hmmmm which are other templates that increase wisdom? I can take any template in just one side of the gestalt.

From which magazine is precision attack from?

Thanks for the advise and keep it coming

Havok4

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 01:32:47 PM »
Half fey also increases wisdom and gives very nice SLAs, same with phrenic, they also increase charisma.

CantripN

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 02:58:53 PM »
I'm currently playing a Gestalt Sorcerer, so you might find something of use there. I must say, I'd never realized just how many uses CHA had.

At the very least, Magic-Blooded will do you a ton of good.
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HCL

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 03:03:50 PM »
Gnome Beguiler or Focused Illusionist //Incarnate

into Soulcaster on the illusionist side until you qualify for shadowcraft mage, then do ur priest into sapphire hierarch on the other side

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 10:45:57 PM »
Ok so here it is the expanded build of my ToB C-Zilla

Race: Dark Phrenic Human
Aligment Lawful Neutral
STR: 10
DEX:16 (14 base+ 2 lvl bonus)
CON: 12
INT: 16 (14 base+ 2 phrenic template)
WIS: 21 (16 base+3 lvl bonus+2 phrenic template)
CHA: 16 (12 base +4 Phrenic template

Build
1 Cloistered Cleric// Dark template LA Feats: Persist Spell, [Human] Wandering path (homebrewed feat), Extend Spell (planning Domain) Extra Turning (Undeath Domain) Knowledge Devotion (not sure about this)
2 Cloistered Cleric// Phrenic Template LA
3 Cloistered Cleric// Phrenic Template LA Feat Divine Metamagic (Persist Spell)
4 Cloistered Cleric// Swordsage  Discipline Focus (Shadow Hand) [Counts as Weapon focus so I can qualify for ordained champion
5 Cloistered Cleric//Swordsage
6 Ruby Knight Vindicator// Cloistered Cleric Feat Adaptive Syle
7 Ruby Knight Vindicator // Swordsage
8 Ruby Knight Vindicator // Swordsage Insightful Strike (Shadow Hand)
9 Ruby Knight Vindicator// Swordsage Shadow Blade
10Ruby Knight vindicator //Swordsage
11Ruby Knight Vindicator// Cloistered Cleric
12Ruby Knight Vindicator// Swordsage Weapon Finnesse
13 Ruby Knight Vindicator//Swordsage Insightful Stance (Devoted spirit or Tiger Claw)
14Ruby Knight Vindicator// Swordsage
15Ruby Knight Vindicator// Swordsage Darkstalker
16 Ordained Champion// Cloistered Cleric
17 Ordained Champion// Swordsage
18 Ordained Champion// Swordsage Insightful Strike (Devoted Spirit) Gloom razor (not sure about this) or Extra Turning
19 Ordained Champion// Cloistered Cleric
20 Ordained Champion// Swordsage

Domains: Undeath Planning Knowledge (possibly War if my DM accepts to refluff Wee-Jas to get it or another of Wee Jas domains)
CL 20  Initiator Level 18
Full spellcasting
17 BAB
I haven't figured out the saves but I think they are at least decent.
Hide in Plain Sight
A lot of Psi-like ablities

BTW wanderig path is a hombrewed feat that lets  you exchange one of your disciplines for one of another ( in this case Desert wind or setting sun for devoted spirit)

So what do you think of this build?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 05:53:26 PM by Dusk Eclipse »

Havok4

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 11:08:10 PM »
You will want to boos your cha as almost all of the psilike abilities require saves and you also need turning attempts to fuel your characters class abilities.

Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2009, 11:12:34 PM »
Would loosing power attack and instead choosing darkstalker instead be a good idea?, because of shadow blade (and an aptitude weapon) I get dex to damage anyway and with strikes from Devoted Spirit and Shadow Hand I get my Wis bonus....
Maybe I can lower STR to 12 (or maybe even to 10 If I decide to dump power attack) to increase Cha...

Bloody Initiate

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 02:31:41 AM »
Would loosing power attack and instead choosing darkstalker instead be a good idea?, because of shadow blade (and an aptitude weapon) I get dex to damage anyway and with strikes from Devoted Spirit and Shadow Hand I get my Wis bonus....
Maybe I can lower STR to 12 (or maybe even to 10 If I decide to dump power attack) to increase Cha...

Darkstalker, imo, became a must-have feat for sneaky types the moment it was published.

Also, Travel Devotion works very well for a Dark creature. By giving another movement action per round, you can hide/move silently up to a target, attack, and hide again all in the same round. You take a -20, but it just doesn't matter that much. Sure they'll spot you a lot of the time, but you'd be surprised how often they DON'T. At lower levels (Pre-6 BAB) this is effectively greater invisibility for someone who can't even cast invisibility yet.

I have also seen dipping into Prestige Paladin from Unearthed Arcana suggested (I believe it was in the exceptional Cleric Handbook on this site). Then take the Battle Blessing feat from Complete Champion.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2009, 08:56:02 PM by Bloody Initiate »
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Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2010, 08:41:38 PM »
Two questions regarding the Unseen Sniper

What would be the best options for the Unseen seer advanced learning?

Would asking for the eccletic learning ACF be too cheesy?

Shadowhunter

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2010, 09:51:19 PM »
Hunter's Eye (PHB II)
Gravestrike (SpC)
Find the Gap (SpC I think)

Those would be the choices I'd take.

Hunter's Eye is almost mandatory.
Gravestrike is nice to push those ridicioulusly many SA dice up the ass of any undead daring to show his heiny to you.
Find the Gap complements Cloud of Knives very well.
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Dusk Eclipse

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Re: Gestalt Builds Brainstorm
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2010, 09:52:52 PM »
Grave strike givess full SA dice to undead? because I was planning on getting the ACF in dungeonscape that gets half SA damage to anything that its immune to it.