Creating a Edlritch Hellfire Ur Disciple

[fun_at_funerals]

I've been banging my head trying to figure out how to make a Hellfire Warlock/Ur-Priest/Eldritch Disciple work for the longest time. The prerequisites just don't seem to lend themselves to the build without demanding some kinda of compromise. Could really use some help here.

I was thinking of using the old Naberius Bind+Hellfire Warlock combo for unlimited and unrestricted Hellfire blasting. Then I got the idea of throwing in Ur-Priest into the mix for Miracle which would eventually allow me to polymorph into a Kelveezu for a huge sneak attack bonus using Infernal Transformation to gain the Outsider type and using Miracle to Mimic Polymorph-Any-Object. However, the prereqs for the classes are kinda restricting.

The problem with Eldritch Disciple is it's Turn Undead requirement. If it weren't for that, I could enter it at ECL 6 with Warlock 3/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 1. Sure, another level of Ur-Priest solves that, but 3 hits to Invocation progression is just too many levels lost for me. That, and I want to hit Hellfire Warlock by ECL 9.

Was considering of finding a way to advance both Invocation and Divine Spellcasting just until Ur-Priest hits 4th level spells so that we can enter Sacred Exorcist, but I can't find any dual progression prestige classes that the warlock half can enter and benefit from.

I also considered trying to advance Soul Bind until we could get Tenebrous for its At-Will Turning/Rebuke but Warlock can't enter Anima Mage.

Really need help.

[CantripN]

Alternate Source Casting or Southern Spellcaster for early qualification, perhaps? Even without, though, I don't think losing a few levels of Invocation is that important.

[KellKheraptis]

IIRC isn't it "Turn or Rebuke Undead" for Disciple?  Two levels of Ur-Priest, one of PrC Pally (pick an alignment, they exist for all of them), and one feat after 3 levels of ED means the whole Wizard list in our Ur-slots   Once I get the kinks worked out of mine, I'll throw it up here.  It's goals are maxed Ur-Priest casting abusing Dragon Magic's allowance of feats tied to spell lists/classes, and maximizing Hellfire Blast damage.  Rawr!

[fun_at_funerals]

Alternate Source Casting or Southern Spellcaster for early qualification, perhaps? Even without, though, I don't think losing a few levels of Invocation is that important.

Early qualification due to a required caster level isn't really the problem. should have mentioned that this is an Illuminian Warlock using Improved Krau Sigil to get around the caster level requirement. The problem is Turn/Rebuke Undead for Eldritch Disciple and that damn Fort Save for Ur- Priest.

IIRC isn't it "Turn or Rebuke Undead" for Disciple?  Two levels of Ur-Priest, one of PrC Pally (pick an alignment, they exist for all of them), and one feat after 3 levels of ED means the whole Wizard list in our Ur-slots   Once I get the kinks worked out of mine, I'll throw it up here.  It's goals are maxed Ur-Priest casting abusing Dragon Magic's allowance of feats tied to spell lists/classes, and maximizing Hellfire Blast damage.  Rawr!

Whoa, back up. How exactly do I get the whole Wizard list in my Ur-Slots? Sword of the Arcane Order? Prestige Paladin would be kinda hard to qualify for early as it does require Mounted Combat and a minimum BAB of +4. Too bad. Would have been cool.

Thing is, I could easily go with: Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 2/Eldritch Disciple 2/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple +8 to get 9th level spells and Dark Invocations, the problem is that the 3 levels where Invocations are not advanced leaves me with 1 Dark Invocation. Was hoping to find a way to minimize the hit to Invocations.

I had the silly idea of trying to find a way to make the Ur-Priest qualify as an Arcane Spellcasting Class instead of a Divine one and using Eldritch Theurge to advance it instead. Could I pull that off with Southern Spell Caster?

[KellKheraptis]

You want PrC Pally after Ur-Priest.  Ur 2+Warlock 4 = BAB 4 on its own.  And yes, it's abusing SotAO to get Wizard spells in Ur-slots.  Now, as for using Eldritch Theurge...how did I line that up :

Warlock 4/Binder 1(or Incarnate 1)/Ur-Priest 2/PrC Pally 1/Eldritch Disciple 4/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Theurge 5 (progressing HF, for both damage and full invocations).  You'll lose a feat to Mounted Combat, but if you like zipping around at 240' you won't mind   Negate all damage with a 7 hp pud summon?  OK!

[fun_at_funerals]

Wait a sec. Are the Wiz/Sorc spells cast by Sword of the Arcane Order considered Arcane or Divine?

I was actually wondering if Southern Magician would allow me to qualify for Eldritch Theurge. If it did, I'd take that until I reach 4th level spells with the Ur-Priest, take a level of Sacred Exorcist, and use Eldrtich Disciple from there on. Also, do prestige classes that advance Divine spellcasting also increase Invocation casting (or is arcane casting progression the only way to get that up)?

Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 1/Eldritch Theurge 3/Sacred Exorcist 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Prestige Paladin 1/Eldritch Theurge +2/Eldritch Disciple 4
Just retrain Southern Magician to Sword of the Arcane Order later on. We get 2 Dark Invocations and 9th level spells, and Wiz/Sorc casting

[KellKheraptis]

You don't even need that.  A Dragonblood Pool taken after effective Ur-Priest 3 (i.e. in my build after your one level of PrC pally) will give you a 3rd level arcane spell and treat your Ur-Priest progression as arcane, thus allowing you to progress into Eldritch Theurge.  Refresh each year as needed until you pick up SotAO, as any spell that isn't on the Cleric list is an arcane spell.  Oh yeah, did I mention you can Arcane Strike with a full attack Eldritch Glaive, and have the arcane magic to pull off the action abuse?

[fun_at_funerals]

I'd much rather not rely on locations. I would much prefer the feat option. Relies too much on the DM actually allowing you to find a Dragonblood Pool. Also, already feels like I'm abusing the system, taking the feat at least slightly assuages the guilt by having to trade something for it  . Plus, Invocation progression is only delayed for 2 levels as opposed to 3.

[fun_at_funerals]

My DM has allowed me to adapt the Hellfire Warlock to interact with the Pyrokineticist. Basically, any ability of the Pyrokineticist that deals damage can be supplemented with the Hellfire abilities of the Hellfire Warlock. The condition is that I take all 10 levels of Pyro though.

Although this would mean that Cleric casting is out, the massive damage potential does seem appealing. Do you guys think I should take the option?

[altpersona]

nope

[fun_at_funerals]

There is also the option to adapt it to apply to the Dragonfire Adept. Problem is that, while taking Cleric casting is still possible, it does prevent me from gaining the Fivefold Breath of Tiamat breath effect. This would have been awesome with Hellfire Warlock, dealing a max of 75d6 (9d6+6d6 x5) damage.

[Empirate]

Prestige Paladin and Ur-Priest? You guys are joking, right? Hello? Alignment!

Also, if reliable damage is your thing, you shouldn't bother with Warlock/Hellfire stuff and go with a Mailman Sorcerer instead - much more flexible, and quite a bit more damaging, iirc. Sure, you can't blast all day long, but who needs that? Just enough to take out your 4 encounters/day should be enough.

It should also be mentioned that Eldritch Blast and Dark Invocations are nice, but these are not usually the real strength of an Eldritch Disciple build. What makes an ED powerful is his versatility, namely, cleric spellcasting. The invocations are just a substitute for some more cleric spellcasting and make for a nice twist to your CoDzilla. Don't forget to add Eldritch Glaive to the mix. With persisted Divine Power, this is good stuff.

[KellKheraptis]

Prestige Paladin and Ur-Priest? You guys are joking, right? Hello? Alignment!

Also, if reliable damage is your thing, you shouldn't bother with Warlock/Hellfire stuff and go with a Mailman Sorcerer instead - much more flexible, and quite a bit more damaging, iirc. Sure, you can't blast all day long, but who needs that? Just enough to take out your 4 encounters/day should be enough.

It should also be mentioned that Eldritch Blast and Dark Invocations are nice, but these are not usually the real strength of an Eldritch Disciple build. What makes an ED powerful is his versatility, namely, cleric spellcasting. The invocations are just a substitute for some more cleric spellcasting and make for a nice twist to your CoDzilla. Don't forget to add Eldritch Glaive to the mix. With persisted Divine Power, this is good stuff.

Adaptation section of Ur-Priest, and ever heard of a Paladin of Freedom/Tyrrany?  Alignment is a nonissue.  The mailman idea is pretty good, though my personal take on that is on page 2 or 3 now (both of them).  Something else interesting, if you wanna crank out the range on a Spellblast...Arcane Devotee gets automatic Enlarge Spell on every spell cast.  Double range...Long becomes 800+80/CL.  Spellwarp Sniper becomes a REAL sniper

[Empirate]

"An Arcane Devotee must have a patron deity...", so no go with Ur-Priest, if I'm not mistaken. Also, Prestige Pally is a PrC with a prereq of AL: Lawful Good, and there's no Prestige Pally of Slaughter/Tyranny.

Which doesn't mean I don't enjoy the idea! By RAW it doesn't work, but some DMs might be willing to adapt Prestige Pally to exemplify an evil principle - which goes well with defying the gods.

[KellKheraptis]

"An Arcane Devotee must have a patron deity...", so no go with Ur-Priest, if I'm not mistaken. Also, Prestige Pally is a PrC with a prereq of AL: Lawful Good, and there's no Prestige Pally of Slaughter/Tyranny.

Which doesn't mean I don't enjoy the idea! By RAW it doesn't work, but some DMs might be willing to adapt Prestige Pally to exemplify an evil principle - which goes well with defying the gods.

Eh...yes and no.  By extrapolation, they indeed do exist, as PrC pally is meant to replace the base class.  Thus, any pally that would exist as a base class, also exists as a PrC pally.  And the adaptation of Ur-Priest allows for following a dead god.  A dead god is still a god, and thus fulfills the requirement for Arcane Devotee.  The example I give in the spellthief thread is a character marooned in FR, away from his deity Kord, who then proceeds to become WAY stronger, exemplifying his deity to the fullest.  He takes a shitty situation and powerbombs it, so to speak.  Ur-Priest/PrC Pally is one of my all time fav combos, and after Dragon Magic opened up the "sharing spell lists" principle, it became all the sweeter.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

normally I'd help but I can't stand to see that swirling eye while I read. Its so distracting...