Author Topic: Swordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help  (Read 19150 times)

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Saxony

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #80 on: January 01, 2010, 03:00:28 AM »
The Quickrazor is re-sheathed for free every time, so you can draw it every round for buttloads of damage. It's no Katana, but with Aptitude, maybe...

Just to be clear, the Iaijutsu Focus skill can be used with any melee weapon. The fifth level ability of the Iaijutsu Master Class called "Strike from the Void" does not require any weapon to use, it only augments the Iaijutsu Focus Skill (By a lot). As CantripN says, the Gnome QuickRazor (found in Races of Stone) can be unsheathed as a free action and must be resheathed as a free action after every attack (if you don't unsheath and resheath the weapon after every attack, you get a -2 to attack rolls), meaning that you can draw it before every attack, meaning you can use Iaijutsu Focus on every attack if your opponent is flatfooted.

Factotums aren't any better at Iaijutus Focus then other characters, its just that they can learn any skill and not many base classes can learn Iaijutsu Focus otherwise. They also rock, and Iaijutsu Focus (especially if combined with a Gnome QuickRazor) makes them even better.
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xeno121

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #81 on: January 01, 2010, 10:27:37 PM »
The swordsage grants access to the Gloom Razor feat(though you need a useless feat in Shadowblade) which allows reliable flat footing every round.  Would that be better than relying on Sapphire Nightmare Blade and White Raven Strike?  Swordsage would give Strike of the Broken Shield, Sapphire Nightmare Blade and Ghost Blade, but comes with a terrible recovery mechanic.
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rypta

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2010, 03:02:43 AM »
They've been missing a lot lately which is a godsend but if they hit for half of my current hp it's a fort save or you lose your next turn(houserule).  That D12 is looking REAL attractive.
Dude what.

Okay, seriously, this is crap. Why is your DM punishing people with fewer hp? They're already in more danger because they're easier to kill, and most of them have lower AC as well; why on earth would he make squishies even squishier? You really need to tell him to bury this one; otherwise nobody's gonna play anything other than high-Con barbarians and crusaders, ever. This does not make for a particularly interesting group dynamic.

I do believe this is the clobbered variant on page 27 of the DMG.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2010, 03:45:33 AM »
They've been missing a lot lately which is a godsend but if they hit for half of my current hp it's a fort save or you lose your next turn(houserule).  That D12 is looking REAL attractive.
Dude what.

Okay, seriously, this is crap. Why is your DM punishing people with fewer hp? They're already in more danger because they're easier to kill, and most of them have lower AC as well; why on earth would he make squishies even squishier? You really need to tell him to bury this one; otherwise nobody's gonna play anything other than high-Con barbarians and crusaders, ever. This does not make for a particularly interesting group dynamic.

I do believe this is the clobbered variant on page 27 of the DMG.
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2010, 04:07:50 AM »
Yeah, at this level picking up a dragonmark and Mark of The Dauntless isn't really a possibility.
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Havok4

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2010, 01:15:29 PM »
(though you need a useless feat in Shadowblade)

Shadowblade is good if you have a high dex character.

xeno121

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Re: lv1, 2 traits, 2 flaws, factotum help, tough campaign.
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2010, 03:25:10 AM »
I suppose, but would an aptitude weapon allow shadowblade to function with a Katana?  It seems to me it would be Shadowblade(dagger), Shadowblade(unarmed strike), etc. since it affects each Shadow Hand preferred weapon and would therefore count for the feat.  

And the Gloom Razor tactical feat, would it be worth it to take a swordsage dip or 2 to get access to it and what would be the best levels to do so, I'm thinking after my 5th level in Iaijutsu Master.

Or should I just take swordsage all the way instead of Warblade?

And I'm having a little trouble with maneuvers, I'm liking what Diamond Mind has to offer A LOT, but White Raven and Iron Heart look excellent as well with a few choice grabs from Tiger Claw.

Ruby/Diamond Nightmare blade combined with Gloom Razor to flatfoot with Iaijutsu would let Gloom Razor "simulate" a full attack on that first strike of the round dealing x2/x4 damage.  I'm thinking of taking the swordsage dip to qualify for Shadowblade at 6th level and gain weapon focus, then at 9th take Gloom Razor.

Something like this maybe:
Feats:
lv1:2flaws, FoIx2, Imp. Initiative, Able Learner
lv3:Quick Draw
lv6:Shadow Blade
lv9:Gloom Razor
lv12:<open> Iaijutsu Master Bonus Feat <open>

I'm thinking of taking 1 or 2 fighter levels for the bonus feats, and taking dodge and mobility, and using the Iaijutsu Master bonus feat to gain Spring Attack, I then use Gloom Razor and Spring Attack to Flatfoot opponents combined with standard action maneuvers in which shadow hand has some nice ones that only effect flatfooted opponents.

My 3rd level is either going to be Warblade or Swordsage, Swordsage gives more maneuvers but the recovery mechanic sucks hard, while warblades recovery is decidedly nicer and allows for the low level flatfooted opportunities of every other turn since recovery is a swift action along with an attack.  Iaijutsu is an average of +3d6 which is very respectable at 3rd level.

I'm considering taking the Stance of Clarity and positioning myself to only facing one opponent at a time since the enemies have ridiculously high hit bonuses and damage, stone bones for the DR would also rock fiercely, I'm liking Child of Shadows for the concealment though, I won't lie.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 10:40:39 AM by xeno121 »
First off, the Joker is a smooth operator. He is very good at convincing people of things, twisting them to further his goals. This is the guy who turned Harvy Dent into Two Face with a simple Bluff check and ten minutes of RP.

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Havok4

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2010, 02:27:58 PM »
I am pretty sure an aptitude weapon works with shadowblade.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #88 on: January 04, 2010, 04:23:04 PM »
I am pretty sure an aptitude weapon works with shadowblade.

Apititude lets anything that affects one weapon affect another. It's not Shadowblade (dagger), if it was, someone with daggers and claws would only add Dex to one of those attacks. It's just Shadowblade. Aptitude shouldn't work.

Havok4

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #89 on: January 04, 2010, 05:01:26 PM »
I am pretty sure an aptitude weapon works with shadowblade.

Apititude lets anything that affects one weapon affect another. It's not Shadowblade (dagger), if it was, someone with daggers and claws would only add Dex to one of those attacks. It's just Shadowblade. Aptitude shouldn't work.

Actually it says one type of weapon, which given a liberal interpretation could work but it could also be seen as unduly stretching the definition of weapon type.

xeno121

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2010, 12:06:26 AM »
So DM interpretation.

Now, I'm looking at the Setting Sun Discipline, and I'm liking it so I might grab a few maneuvers that redirect attack combined with Gloom Razor, Shadowhand has me enthralled for some strange reason, and Diamond Mind stays as sexy as it was before maybe taking Steady Concentration.  The lack of Wisdom is a pain since most of the class abilities are wasted but I think gaining Shadowhand and setting sun more than make up for it considering I'm now optimizing around Gloom Razor.

I'm going to take the Unarmed Swordsage variant, and I'm trying to decide whether to dip Warblade now for the better recovery for Sapphire Nightmare Blade or to just resign myself to the Swordsage's method and go for Gloom Razor when I can. 
First off, the Joker is a smooth operator. He is very good at convincing people of things, twisting them to further his goals. This is the guy who turned Harvy Dent into Two Face with a simple Bluff check and ten minutes of RP.

ShneekeyTheLost

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #91 on: January 05, 2010, 03:27:50 AM »
With adaptive style the method is not all that bad given the large # of maneuver readied.

xeno121

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #92 on: January 05, 2010, 05:32:31 AM »
I don't have a free feat slot until 12th level so swordsage recovery is still going to suck until then, and I need quick draw at 3rd for Iaijutsu Focus spamming.  Though should my strategy before 9th level be playing as primarily a swordsage and using Inspiration points to make my maneuvers hit more often and using Quickdraw and Sapphire Nightmare Blade to Iaijutsu twice a battle and fall back on damaging maneuvers?
First off, the Joker is a smooth operator. He is very good at convincing people of things, twisting them to further his goals. This is the guy who turned Harvy Dent into Two Face with a simple Bluff check and ten minutes of RP.

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xeno121

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Re: Factotum/WarbladeorSwordsage/Iaijutsu Master build help
« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2010, 04:20:01 PM »
well, my character died a few weeks ago so I made a new one that is working a whole lot better.  It's a Swordsage1/Samurai2/Swordsage+1 a few xp away from lv5. 

I love Iaijutsu Focus.  I Iaijutsu all night and all day.  I like the Iaijutsu Master, but I've love maneuvers as well.  Maneuvers are really fun and I really enjoy that aspect of my character.   the lv5 ability of Iaijutsu Master pimps out Iaijutsu Focus a lot.   I thought of using Legacy champion to inflate the Initiator Level to have the best of both worlds but after the maneuver gap I get 4th level maneuvers instead of 7th at lv13.

Death in the Dark, avalanche of blades, Inferno Blade, Ancient Mountain Hammer, a lot of very powerful maneuvers in exchange for +CHA to each damage dice for Iaijutsu Focus.  At 4th level my Iaijutsu Focus skill is 20 and that's a minimum of 28 with a 20CHA is a guaranteed 4d6 +20 on a 1 and on a 17 or higher I get 8d6 +40.  I think that competes with Death in the Darks 15d6, without being as situational considering at lv12 I'll possess a Blurstrike weapon and Gloom Razor, first attack is with blurstrike active, next strike Gloom Razor does it's thing for constant Iaijutsu Focus damage, combined with low level maneuvers that scale well such as Mountain Hammer to bypass DR.
First off, the Joker is a smooth operator. He is very good at convincing people of things, twisting them to further his goals. This is the guy who turned Harvy Dent into Two Face with a simple Bluff check and ten minutes of RP.

ShneekeyTheLost