Author Topic: Help Me Make a Cleric  (Read 2610 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mushroom Ninja

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Help Me Make a Cleric
« on: December 04, 2009, 01:19:08 AM »
Tomorrow I'm going to be joining a 17th level campaign.  The party lacks a cleric, so I thought I'd roll one up.  However, I've had very limited experience playing clerics and, though the Cleric Handbook was very useful, I'm still not quite sure what to do.  So I thought I'd ask for some pointers here.

Pertinent Information:

Stats:  I've not generated mine yet, but when I do it will be using my group's system: 4d6b3, 2 lines, for each stat under 12, you can add 1 point to another stat (you can't boost any above 18 pre-race)

Houserules:
- Full-round spells are finished casting at the end of your turn, not the beginning of your next turn (as though druids weren't powerful enough already  :lmao)

- No tripping on AoOs

- The DM might be limiting us to 1 PrC (I'm not sure if he will do this, though he has in the past)

- He'll probably rule no nightstack-stacking, but I've not brought it up

Party Optimization Level:
The optimization level of the group is generally fairly low, although I've heard that one of the players is playing some sort of Shapechanging Gish.  I'm the only one who frequents (or at least lurks in) CharOp boards.

Party Composition:
Aforementioned Gish (I think he also has some sort of cleric cohort, but I'm not quite sure what it does), Paladin with some weird template, Pixie Rogue, Frenzied Berserker (lacks Leap Attack, Shocktrooper, Combat Brute IIRC), Wizard (blaster :nonono), Some other up-front fighter

My Thoughts Thusfar:
It seems to me that this party is very front-line heavy, so I want to avoid the self-buff melee-zilla cleric route.  I don't particularly want to clog up the battlefield with summons, so I plan on avoiding the summoner route.  Right now, I'm leaning towards making a party-buffer of some kind.

Here's the build I've got so far:

Cleric 16/Hierophant 1
Race: Human
Domains:Travel, Undeath
ACF: Domain Spontaneity (Travel)
Feats:
1: Quicken Spell
Human: DMM (Quicken)
3: Chain Spell
6: DMM (Chain)
9: Extra turning
12: Extra Turning
15: Extra Turning

Reasoning:
First of all, let me make it clear how much I hate breaking Commandment 1 of optimization.  However, I really, really like the idea of chaining all those tasty, tasty touch-range buffs, and I'm not sure if I could fit in Reach Spell and DMM(reach). 

This said, there may be much better ways to buff the party.  I'd love to hear any feedback and suggestions (both for build and spells).  Thank you in advance. 


Operation Shoestring

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 937
  • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 03:05:40 AM »
There was a feat, (Divine Ward?) that might help.. i forget, it's been a long time.

Or y'know, use a metamagic rod.  Reach rods aren't too expensive.

What books are available? 

Travel Granted power makes cleric levels actually worth keeping instead of PRCing out, but even then, you don't need more than 12 levels. So if you're not limited to one PrC, Snipe a level of Contemplative for a bonus domain.  Divine Oracle or Church Inquisitor may be worth looking into as well.

Azurin Cleric (level 1 ACF) + Sacred Exorcist = unarguably legal way to double your turning pool. Though some DM's ban it anyway, out of power concerns.

DerWille

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 247
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 05:54:28 AM »
I'm not a master at building clerics, but they're so versatile that they're easy to over generalize. You said you want to be the party buffer, but what other role do you want? How do you feel about ranged damage or battlefield control?

Also, if you don't mind deviating from cleric, but still want to be the party buffer why not try the Rainbow Weaving Warsnake? It's a warmage that goes into rainbow servant that goes into war weaver. You'll have full access to the cleric spell list and the warmage spell list. Then you'll be able to funnel all kinds of awesome cleric buffs through an eldritch tapestry to buff all of your allies at once. To get full War Weaver progression, you're going to have to qualify early for Rainbow Servant.

CantripN

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating
    • Cantrip, Gestalt Gish
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 08:47:41 AM »
How about an Archivist, hmm? All the buffs ever, and the amazing Dark Knowledge! It even has decent class features up until level 11 or so, so except getting Sacred Exorcist, you might want to stay in.

I'd combine it with War Weaver for mass effect (Southern Spellcaster tricks). Less cheesy than the Warsnake, and more likely to be allowed.
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 08:54:44 AM »
If he's allowing a lot of stuff, I can link my Warsnakes.  The main two builds get the Warmage, Cleric, Paladin, and Sor/Wiz lists, and then depending on which one, you'll either have metamagic effect from Incantatrix or Supernatural Spell from Dweomerkeeper.  The war weaver version is awesome too, and one of the most solid, rules-wise.  None of mine though have been updated to take advantage of the line in Dragon Magic allowing list sharing to qualify other classes for initiate and deity specific feats, so it'd probably even be full 20/20 instead of the 2 lost to PrC Pally 4.  If you like the sounds of it, I can whip one up for you (and now that I'm thinking about it, probably will anyway and post it up here).
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Mushroom Ninja

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 10:41:00 AM »
Oops, I forgot to mention what books are allowed.  In short, I can probably use stuff from any book the DM owns.  Also, I'm probably not allowed to use Eberron or Faerun materiel. 

Things he doesn't have:
Heroes of Horror
Races of the Dragon
Dragon Magic
(Maybe more, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head)

Also, I'm 99% sure he won't let me use Dungeon/Dragon Magazines.

Another question:  As a cleric, is it a good idea to buy magic armor or stick with mundane + Magic vestment?

CantripN

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1199
  • Constantly talking isn't necessarily communicating
    • Cantrip, Gestalt Gish
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 10:44:46 AM »
Read, every day, something no one else is reading. Think, every day, something no one else is thinking. Do, every day, something no one else would be silly enough to do. It is bad for the mind to be always part of unanimity.

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 10:58:01 AM »
Oops, I forgot to mention what books are allowed.  In short, I can probably use stuff from any book the DM owns.  Also, I'm probably not allowed to use Eberron or Faerun materiel. 

Things he doesn't have:
Heroes of Horror
Races of the Dragon
Dragon Magic
(Maybe more, but this is all I can think of off the top of my head)

Also, I'm 99% sure he won't let me use Dungeon/Dragon Magazines.

Another question:  As a cleric, is it a good idea to buy magic armor or stick with mundane + Magic vestment?

Well, if he's allowing online stuff, there's always the Dweomerkeeper (not Faerun specific, and you can probably make a case for Initiate of Mystra being refluffed for any deity of magic).  They're good for buffing, debuffing, melee, ranged, blasting, damn near everything really.  And the ultimate in buffing comes from Supernatural Spell, meaning constant +5 all stats :)
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Rebel7284

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1585
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 11:05:52 AM »
I don't suggest taking DMM on both Chain and Quicken, just get a Rod of Chaining and preserve your turn attempts for quicken.  Dweomerkeeper is indeed increadible.  Enter it by taking that feat that allows you to prepare a few cantrips out of a Wizard's spellbook.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

KellKheraptis

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
  • What's the matter? I thought you had me...
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 11:09:41 AM »
I don't suggest taking DMM on both Chain and Quicken, just get a Rod of Chaining and preserve your turn attempts for quicken.  Dweomerkeeper is indeed increadible.  Enter it by taking that feat that allows you to prepare a few cantrips out of a Wizard's spellbook.

Magical Training.  If he allows 2 PrC's, Divine Disciple (used in the iconic Cheater of Mystra) gets you outsider type.  Going Cloistered Cleric would probably make it even better, since then you get another domain (Knowledge) and can abuse Knowledge Devotion (not that you need another +5 to hit and damage).
BG's Resident Black Hatter
The Mango List Reborn!
My Warmage Trickery (coming soon!)
My PrC Pally Trickery (coming soon!)
The D&D Archive
-Work in progress!

Operation Shoestring

  • King Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 937
  • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 02:52:19 AM »
Another question:  As a cleric, is it a good idea to buy magic armor or stick with mundane + Magic vestment?

If you aren't buffing yourself to a high score, or have a naturally high STR score, A +1 armor with the Traveling enhancement is good for ANY character.  At higher levels, Soulfire is supposed to be pretty good too.

zavule

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 48
    • Email
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 04:17:58 PM »
If you're avoiding melee, the cloistered cleric is fantastic.  I made a tenth level build that focused on quickening spells.  Its not 17th level, but it could be easily leveled.  Just go with anything that gives you more turn attempts.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4264.msg138205#msg138205

Not terribly optimized, but looking at your party you won't need to be.  Just quicken some buffs, and go to town.
DM: The iron door is enchanted with a powerful anti-magic barrier.
Zavy: The door itself?
DM: Yes.
Zavy: I get acid flasks and a pry bar.  I just found myself a new tower shield.

Mushroom Ninja

  • Domesticated Capuchin Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 119
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 04:29:55 PM »
Thanks for all the help, everyone.  I've incorporated many of your suggestions into my cleric and, so far, it's doing quite well.  :)

Rooster

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: Help Me Make a Cleric
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 07:22:51 AM »
While you've got Heroes of Battle open, check out Combat Medic. It's kind of annoying to qualify for (two lame feats) but it has solid benefits over the five levels. Evasion. :D