Author Topic: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field  (Read 9706 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2009, 01:40:30 AM »
Oh, and that's not including long-term buffs, such as vigor, share pain, inertial armor, personal mind blank, and energy conversion...

...Not to mention what the psywar does on HIS turn.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 01:43:01 AM by Lycanthromancer »
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Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2009, 03:21:52 AM »
You can get a fu**-ton of actions in one round at higher levels, if you want to.

No, I know. You're speaking to the person that invented infinite actions (with metaminds at least). It just didn't seem to me like you had a recharge plan in mind (by just seeing the basic map of the char) so I thought that would be a problem. Because without being a metamind it takes a ton of power points.

Honestly, I wonder if Wizards left hidden tricks in the books for recharge (like overlooking the obvious abuses of bestow power) as a reward for the hard-core psion players because without them psions are kind of underpowered; or rather, they are an all-or-nothing class. You either ping away at things or blow all your pp annihilating things in one or two battles.

Spells auto-scale, powers scale by expending additonal pp. If you were to convert everything to SP then wizard/sorcs would actually be able to get more out of their spells than psions can out of their powers. Thus, recharge is essential.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 03:25:43 AM by Azrael »

Lycanthromancer

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2009, 03:56:51 AM »
Hmm. I noticed a mistake on my nova; schism would've popped up by the end of round 1, so I had another (mental) standard action to make, as well as a fission'd copy of my psion. Oops. Metamorphosis into a choker + Offensive precognition and defensive precognition?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 03:58:42 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2009, 01:22:35 AM »
D'oh. I really should have read the Test of Spite rules.

Not level 20.

Level 13.

And a max of 2 characters.

For some reason I could've sworn that the original Test had several different levels, one of which was a whole party of level 20s.

:(
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2009, 02:08:53 PM »
Azrael: Somehow I completely overlooked the part of your posts about the grafts. I have no idea how. I came to the same conclusion through a different source.  :twitch  ???  :o  :blush
Sigh, that was me actually.  :(
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kalaskaagathas

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2009, 04:47:23 PM »
You can get a fu**-ton of actions in one round at higher levels, if you want to.
Honestly, I wonder if Wizards left hidden tricks in the books for recharge (like overlooking the obvious abuses of bestow power) as a reward for the hard-core psion players because without them psions are kind of underpowered; or rather, they are an all-or-nothing class. You either ping away at things or blow all your pp annihilating things in one or two battles.

Spells auto-scale, powers scale by expending additonal pp. If you were to convert everything to SP then wizard/sorcs would actually be able to get more out of their spells than psions can out of their powers. Thus, recharge is essential.

Actually, they did, in Magic of Incarnum.  It costs you two feats, Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion, which give you power points equal to the essentia invested in the feat and fill one of your incarnum receptacles for one round (at the cost of your psionic focus) respectively.  The trick is to leave Azure Talent empty, and then repeatedly fill it with Psycarnum Infusion (who's effect lasts for only one round, therefore re-emptying Azure Talent) until you have however many Power Points you desire.  These are two feats that, if allowed, all of my power point using characters have, since like you said "...recharge is essential."

bearsarebrown

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Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2009, 06:03:31 PM »
Actually, they did, in Magic of Incarnum.  It costs you two feats, Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion, which give you power points equal to the essentia invested in the feat and fill one of your incarnum receptacles for one round (at the cost of your psionic focus) respectively.  The trick is to leave Azure Talent empty, and then repeatedly fill it with Psycarnum Infusion (who's effect lasts for only one round, therefore re-emptying Azure Talent) until you have however many Power Points you desire.  These are two feats that, if allowed, all of my power point using characters have, since like you said "...recharge is essential."

I know that recharges exist, I use the greater demolition mindfeeder on astral constructs trick all the time. What I want to know is if they intentionally left loopholes in the system to reward those which get into psionics in-depth.

I don't have the books on me atm but correct me if I'm wrong...wouldnt your psycarnum infusion thing not work because its only a once per day thing? I thought I knew all the psionics recharge tricks out there and I have never heard of this one.

and yes bearsarebrown I believe it IS essential because every fucking game ive played a psionic char in that didnt use a recharge everyone was always bitching at me that we had to rest too often; and I was pretty conservative with my power points. I'm not even saying its essential for making an uber-maxed out char. It's essential because it helps the flow of gameplay.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 06:06:42 PM by Azrael »

kalaskaagathas

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2009, 06:11:44 PM »
Bearsarebrown: Appy polly loggies?

Azrael: As far as I can tell, Psycarnum Infusion is not a once per day thing.  It's text reads as follows:
To use this feat, you must expend your psionic
focus. Until the start of your next turn, one of your soulmelds,
incarnum feats, class features, or other incarnum
receptacles is treated as if it had essentia invested in it equal
to its maximum essentia capacity.
*

So your empty, or at least less than full, incarnum receptacle is treated as full until the start of your next round.  Now, granted, most incarnum feats (including Azure Talent) have fixed essentia investment values (chosen at the start of the day) but I do think that Psycarnum Infusion is a special case exemption to that rule.  Therefore, as per the text of Azure Talent:
Once per day, you can invest essentia into
this feat. You gain bonus power points equal to twice the
invested essentia. Once the amount of essentia invested
is chosen, it cannot be altered and remains invested for
24 hours.
*

When this becomes full until your next turn, you gain power points equal to twice the essentia invested.  Then, Azure Talent empties at the start of your next turn, but the power points gained remain (This is my reading of it, at least.  Other readings may be possible).  Recover your Psionic Focus and repeat as necessary.

* I believe repeating the text of these feats here to be fair-use.

Negative Zero

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2009, 06:41:53 PM »
Oh! To answer the topic question, I just had another idea. If can get an Eyes of the Oracle going (Dragon Magic 66), you can always have a readied action against AMF.

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2009, 06:43:33 PM »
Might as well use Celerity. Simpler, more broken, better. Either that, or Synchronicity...
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Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2009, 06:44:13 PM »
I'm pretty sure bonus pp don't stack just as temporary hp don't stack. But, assuming you invested enough essentia you can use them to manifest bestow power. Therefore, assuming psycarnum infusion is not a once per day thing it would work.

However, theres some really tricky wording involved in azure talent which i'm sure any proper DM would choose to interpret in a way such as "the bonus power points granted by azure talent can only be granted during the once per day time period in which you invest the essentia." Or something like that. It just seems like this combo is too on-the-edge to be considered legit since it can be interpreted in other ways without much justification.

However, the greater demolition mindfeeder trick works 100%, with nothing misconstrued.

Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2009, 06:46:21 PM »
Oh! To answer the topic question, I just had another idea. If can get an Eyes of the Oracle going (Dragon Magic 66), you can always have a readied action against AMF.

Been there, done that (one of my favorite spells btw, definitely in the top 20). The problem is you cant persist Eyes of the Oracle since its a discharge effect...if you can figure out another way to get it up all day (besides using a metamind) please let me know.

Sure, it could be one of the first spells you cast in a battle (I usually do arcane spellsurge then eyes as my swift) but I think Lycanthromancer is looking for more of a permanent solution.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 06:49:12 PM by Azrael »

Negative Zero

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2009, 06:55:46 PM »
Celerity has the Dazing issue, which can be dealt with, but it's an issue nonetheless. I looked up Synchronicity already - persisting it doesn't work (assuming you are using Hyperconscious), as the readied action has to go off in the round after the casting. Having a Synchronicity go off every round seems like it'd be a tad expensive, however.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2009, 10:25:37 PM »
Azrael: Somehow I completely overlooked the part of your posts about the grafts. I have no idea how. I came to the same conclusion through a different source.  :twitch  ???  :o  :blush
Sigh, that was me actually.  :(
See? I told you I overlooked that...

Unless I can get something going by level 13, I probably won't worry about doing the Test of Spite thing.

Also, WTF is up with the formatting here (or lack thereof)?
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

ninjarabbit

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2009, 10:34:13 PM »
Cast shrink item on a bunch of boulders to make them rock or pebble-sized and throw them at the spellcaster in the AMF

Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2009, 10:39:09 PM »
Celerity has the Dazing issue, which can be dealt with, but it's an issue nonetheless. I looked up Synchronicity already - persisting it doesn't work (assuming you are using Hyperconscious), as the readied action has to go off in the round after the casting. Having a Synchronicity go off every round seems like it'd be a tad expensive, however.

Unless you're a metamind  :D But they are the most broken class in the game.

Azrael: Somehow I completely overlooked the part of your posts about the grafts. I have no idea how. I came to the same conclusion through a different source.  :twitch  ???  :o  :blush
Sigh, that was me actually.  :(
See? I told you I overlooked that...

Unless I can get something going by level 13, I probably won't worry about doing the Test of Spite thing.

Also, WTF is up with the formatting here (or lack thereof)?

Well it was me as well, I suggested flight, I just didn't know about the grafts.

Honestly, I don't worry about AMF with any of my casters. Unless the other caster is an initiate of mystra there are a million ways around it. Otherwise, some kind of charger/grappler build that has a persistent AMF would be one of the most powerful builds in the game.

And any caster that loses to a fighter charging in with an antimagic torc deserves to lose.

snakeman830

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2009, 11:08:04 PM »
Honestly, I don't worry about AMF with any of my casters. Unless the other caster is an initiate of mystra there are a million ways around it. Otherwise, some kind of charger/grappler build that has a persistent AMF would be one of the most powerful builds in the game.
Well, I'm doing pretty darn well with just that in one of my games.  Of course, he uses Extraordinary spell-aim to keep all of his buffs active anyway, so I'm not entirely certian it counts.
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Azrael

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Re: (3.5) Q: Retaining Buffs and Abilities Within an Antimagic Field
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2009, 02:04:52 AM »
Well, I'm doing pretty darn well with just that in one of my games.  Of course, he uses Extraordinary spell-aim to keep all of his buffs active anyway, so I'm not entirely certian it counts.

Well, considering you have to be able to cast 6th level spells to use it, no, it doesn't count. You're beating a caster with a caster, I'm talking about beating a caster with a pure non-caster.

I do the same thing btw, its one of my favorite things to do (- the grappling).