Knockback Charger (The Home Run King)

[fun_at_funerals]

Templates and Race for Large Size: My mistake. We're thinking about the same Half-Giant. Was too stupid to realize it wasn't a template. Not really familiar with Psionics. If I'm reading LA rules correctly (and I'm not really familiar with them), we'd lose a point of BAB progression to LA, right? Would much rather pick an option that keeps BAB intact.

It seems that Jotenbrud is the only real option here. Problem is I don't have Races of Faerun on me. What exactly do we gain (or lose) through the feat. Requirements?

Dancing with the Shadows: Reread it, you're right. So the best we can hope for is power attack for full back without penalty to either AC or BAB if we use the Graceful Lunge Maneuver every round. Is there anyway to increase the limit as to how large we can trade in for damage with Power Attack?

Dungeoncrasher: I think stacking on bonuses to Power Attack is more optimal in terms of damage. Plus, we need standard fighter levels for all the feats needed for the build.

Island/Wall of Blades: I think you mean Thicket of Blades. That's actually a good idea. I can convince the guy a small dip into a Martial Adept class is worth it. That's be awesome since the build aims to knock people around the battle field and will have practically zero defenses. It synergizes really well with Knockback since all it requires is for us to have used power attack and score a hit. We're practically untouchable in this stance.

Knockback: My DM and I have come to a common understanding of Knockback. Since, as part of the feat, you never had to move with your opponent to begin with, it overrides the rules of standard bullrushing and allows you to push the target as far back as the strength check will allow. Works to my advantage.

Given everyone's input, I've edited the original build and also came up with another human variant:

HUMAN VARIANT:
Human Overwhelming Assault Monk 2/Fighter 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Frenzied Berzerker 1/Crusader 1/Frenzied Berzerker +9
ECL 1 (6: 1 Base, 1 Human, 1 Monk, 2 Flaws) Jotunbrud, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Brute, Cleave, Power Attack
ECL 2 (1) Combat Expertise
ECL 3 (2) Leap Attack, Great Cleave
ECL 4 (1) Knockback
ECL 6 (2) Destructive Rage, Shock Trooper
ECL 7 (1) Combat Reflexes
ECL 8 (1) Intimidating Rage
ECL 9 (1) Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades
ECL 12 (1) Rampaging Bullrush
ECL 15 (1) Extend Rage
ECL 18 (1) Righteous Wrath

Assuming we are able to charge on the first round and successfully knockback an opponent at least 10 feet, we'll be able to use the power attack multiplier of Combat Brute every round.

KALASHTAR VARIANT:
Kalashtar Overwhelming Assault Monk 2/ Fighter 4/Psychic Warior 2/Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Frenzied Berzerker 1/Crusader 1/Frenzied Berzerker +9
ECL 1 (4: 1 Base, 1 Monk, 2 Flaws) Jotunbrud, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Brute
ECL 2 (1) Combat Expertise
ECL 3 (2) Power Attack, Cleave
ECL 4 (1) Knockback
ECL 6 (2) Destructive Rage, Leap Attack
ECL 7 (1) Shock Trooper
ECL 8 (1) Intimidating Rage
ECL 9 (1) Improved Combat Expertise
ECL 12 (1) Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades
ECL 15 (1) Path of Shadows
ECL 18 (1) Dancing with the Shadows

This one has the same Kockback and Power Attack benefits of the human one but has a host of problems (multiclassing for one). The biggest advantage this has is that Dancing in the Shadows will allow it to Power Attack without penalty every round assuming it performs the Graceful Lunge maneuver every round. The only problem is that Frenzy prevents you from using Combat Expertise which kinda makes this build pointless unless it can be resolved.

The human build has the advantage of frenzy not really being a problem (but an advantage actually) for it, unlike the Kalashtar which needs to use Combat Expertise to cover up the penalty from Power Attack. Furthermore, the human option has more benefits while raging (like knocking the target prone after the knockback) and can rage longer. It also has more room for other feats (like Combat Reflexes to augment Thicket of Blades)The only problem with the human build is that it will have absolutely no AC when it Power Attacks.

What do you guys think?

[KellKheraptis]

It can still be done with a Kalashtar.  Human subraces can still take human feats, after all

[fun_at_funerals]

Good point on the Jotenbrud feat, by the way.   Completely forgot about that.

The problem isn't really about size any more, but rather, which variant handles itself better in battle. The human variant seems to be the way to go. Kalashtar doesn't really seem to work, given that it's only advantage of compensating for power attack penalties can't be used while raging.   Plus, it's not like the penalty to AC really matters for the human since any attempt to approach him results in a free knockback

[KellKheraptis]

Good point on the Jotenbrud feat, by the way.   Completely forgot about that.

The problem isn't really about size any more, but rather, which variant handles itself better in battle. The human variant seems to be the way to go. Kalashtar doesn't really seem to work, given that it's only advantage of compensating for power attack penalties can't be used while raging.   Plus, it's not like the penalty to AC really matters for the human since any attempt to approach him results in a free knockback

Do you have enough slots open to take Combat Brute?  I think that's the one that can extend Shock Trooper an extra round.

[fun_at_funerals]

Yep. Both Combat Brute and Shock Trooper are in there. The feat order's just messed up.

Here's the fixed Feat order for the Human Variant:

Human Martial Monk Variant 2/Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Frenzied Berzerker 1/Crusader 1/Frenzied Berzerker +9
ECL 1 (5: 1 Base, 1 Human, 1 Monk, 2 Flaws) Jotunbrud, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Cleave
ECL 2 (1) Knockback
ECL 3 (1) Destructive Rage
ECL 4 (1) Great Cleave
ECL 5 (1) Leap Attack
ECL 6 (1) Rampaging Bullrush
ECL 7 (1) Shock Trooper
ECL 8 (1) Combat Brute
ECL 9 (1) Intimidating Rage
ECL 12 (1) Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades
ECL 15 (1) Extend Rage
ECL 18 (1) Righteous Wrath

BAB 19
IL 6

Maneuvers:
Battle Leader's Charge (Charge without AoO, +10 to damage)
Charging Minotaur (Charge without AoO, free bull rush at the end without moving with the enemy)
Martial Spirit Stance (Healing is good)
Stone Vise (Immobilizing the target is always good)
Mountain Hammer (Overcome DR is useful)
Revitalizing Strike (Healing is going to be really useful with this build)
Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades (Awesome AoO goodness!)

Question: Do we need combat reflexes to take more than 1 AoO in the Thicket of Blades Stance? Or does just being in the stance allow us to make AoO's without limit for so long as they are provoked according to the rules of the stance?

[Prime32]

Question: Do we need combat reflexes to take more than 1 AoO in the Thicket of Blades Stance? Or does just being in the stance allow us to make AoO's without limit for so long as they are provoked according to the rules of the stance?

You still need Combat Reflexes.

Also, you don't need Great Cleave (doesn't come up enough) or Improved Sunder (reduces your loot). Instead I'd consider Improved Trip - if you have a whip-dagger or something in your off-hand to improve your reach (30ft when combined with expansion) you could even combine it with Rampaging Bull Rush - bullrush someone away, you get AoOs against them from Thicket of Blades, then they fall down and you get a free attack from Improved Trip.

Extra Rage would serve you better than Extend Rage, so that you can rage in every combat (take it as early as possible).

[Bloody Initiate]

If Tome of Battle is ALLOWED but he doesn't want it (And he's asking you to make the char for him) you should give him Minotaur's Charge or Boulder Roll without telling him its ToB just to spite him.

[fun_at_funerals]

Prime 32: Very well, dropping Great Cleave for Combat Reflexes.   Sadly, we need Improved Sunder as a prerequisite for Combat Brute.

Problem with Extend Rage vs. Extra Rage. Thing is, since I'm using the Whirling Frenzy variant, I don't get the Con boost Rage normally grants (The Frenzied Berserker's Frenzy doesn't grant a Con boost either) so I'm worried that the duration of Frenzy might be a tad short. Plus, if Frenzy triggers more often, this means that by the second time we enter Frenzy we will be exhausted and pretty much useless by the end of the first encounter (assuming we enter Frenzy twice) and need to wait until 20th level before we get Tireless Frenzy.

As for the Whip-Dagger, the build is meant to focus on a Two Handed weapon, so no carrying a weapon in our off-hand. Plus, we can't use any Psionic abilities while we're Frenzied anyway.  

Bloody Initiative: Seriously considering that. Already included some potential maneuvers in the above post. Nice suggestion on Boulder Roll. Charging feats that allow us to attack, move, and reposition are always good. What should I replace Boulder Roll with?

Edited Build:
Human Martial Monk Variant 2/Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Frenzied Berzerker 1/Crusader 1/Frenzied Berzerker +9
ECL 1 (5: 1 Base, 1 Human, 1 Monk, 2 Flaws) Jotunbrud, Improved Sunder, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Cleave
ECL 2 (1) Knockback
ECL 3 (1) Destructive Rage
ECL 4 (1) Combat Reflexes
ECL 5 (1) Leap Attack
ECL 6 (1) Extend Rage
ECL 7 (1) Shock Trooper
ECL 8 (1) Combat Brute
ECL 9 (1) Intimidating Rage
ECL 12 (1) Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades
ECL 15 (1) Rampaging Bullrush
ECL 18 (1) Righteous Wrath

[Prime32]

As for the Whip-Dagger, the build is meant to focus on a Two Handed weapon, so no carrying a weapon in our off-hand. Plus, we can't use any Psionic abilities while we're Frenzied anyway.  

Spiked chain then? Use the Exoticist variant fighter to gain proficiency in it.

Or you could wield a spiked shield in two hands and build one of those quick-draw sheaths into it.

[fun_at_funerals]

Where is the Exorcist Variant Fighter from? Aren't we proficient with it the Spike Chain due to our Monk levels?

Problem with that is I have no idea where in the feat progression we can fit Improved Trip in. Also, don't we already knock our opponent prone with Rampaging Bullrush? All it requires is that we make a successful bullrush attempt (in this case, from Knockback) and that we make a follow up strength check immediately after the attempt roll.

[Endarire]

See Hood.

[fun_at_funerals]

Oh, I'm familiar with the Dragoon Build. Saw the original by, IIRC, Tempest_Stormwind.

Jumping vertically doesn't really serve the end that my friend wants to achieve with this build. He wants to be a disruptor type charger: throwing people around and ruining the enemies positions while placing them in tactically strategic positions for the other members of the party. Plus, much of the feats necessary for the Dragoon are already present in the build.

Need to ask again, where is the Exoticist Fighter Variant located.

Also, I need a recommendation for the appropriate weapon. Was thinking of getting a Goliath Hammer or a Minotaur Greathammer (not certain in what book it is located, though).

For a maneuver list for that Crusader dip, considering these:
Battle Leader's Charge (Charge without AoO, +10 to damage)
Charging Minotaur (Charge without AoO, free bull rush at the end without moving with the enemy)
Martial Spirit Stance (Healing is good)
Boulder Roll (Charge without AoO to overrun. Again, great for repositioning)
Mountain Hammer (Overcome DR is useful)
Revitalizing Strike (Healing is going to be really useful with this build)
Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades (Awesome AoO goodness!)

[PhaedrusXY]

Need to ask again, where is the Exoticist Fighter Variant located.

Dragon magazine. I don't know the issue.

[InnaBinder]

Need to ask again, where is the Exoticist Fighter Variant located.

Dragon magazine. I don't know the issue.

Dragon 310.