Author Topic: Capture the Flag D&D  (Read 5168 times)

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Akalsaris

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Capture the Flag D&D
« on: November 21, 2009, 01:53:42 AM »
So, while I've been gone at grad school, some of my PCs have had the idea of trying to make a D&D 3.5 game of Capture the Flag ala Halo.  It would probably be teams of 2v2 or 3v3 (because of the # of PCs in the area who would be interested), but other than that nothing's really been hashed out.  I figured to help them out I'd ask here for ideas. 

Some questions:
Has anyone done something similar to this before?  I've run arena play, PC army vs army, and PC vs PC, but not a game where the victory conditions weren't set on PC death.

What levels do you think would be best?  I'm inclined to say 3rd level personally, but I could see E6 working as well.  Too high and it could just become astral projection vs. Forcecage or something. 

What classes, feats, etc should be restricted?  I don't mind if it's double wizard vs. double druid, but I do want to see some PC interaction and avoid no-win scenarious like putting the flag in a Leomund's Secret Chest.

Length of battlefield, interesting map ideas?

# of caps needed, some good strategies?

What would make some solid combos for this style of play? 

Kal Zakath

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2009, 02:15:11 AM »
I did try this style of play. we did two DMs and 5 people on each team with the two groups running simultaneously. It took 6 hours to go through 3 in game rounds. the whole thing ended horribly. sorry if that sounds depressing.

is this a Play by post or table top game?

Now on to the advice:
Keep the level low- one of the problems was that my players were too high levels, with too many options each turn took forever.

We had more people than you do, which means that the power of a summoned creature could be powerful.

be sure to give the players an idea of the terrain beforehand, I didn't and it ended up getting one of the players pissed at me, considering the terrain nerfed his character half the time.

thats just some of the basics.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2009, 02:37:34 AM »
Reminds me of Facing Worlds on Unreal Tournament :D  I'll third the idea of running it at lower levels, and I would also suggest having at least a token building (or complex if it's all indoors) to house the "flag."  Is this a one shot?  If so, maybe even make it level 1 and have everyone just roll up 3-5 characters.  Think of it as a sort of parametered "Reverse Dungeon," where the "goblins" are just low level characters.  I would imagine the usual cast of support characters would do well in this sort of thing, and possibly even the less optimal classes could be useful, such as Dragon Disciple's auras.  At level 1, a LOT of classes seem a lot more powerful than they are.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2009, 03:05:51 AM »
Sorry to hear that it ended so poorly, Kal.  The game would be live, and I'm hoping I won't be the one running it - but odds are I'll end up with the job for at least one round so the ones who came up with the idea could run through it.

Keeping it 1st or 2nd level seems to be the most attractive option, though.  Terrain...hmm.  I was picturing the basic Halo 2 map for CTF, the outdoor one with the two forts and a few jeeps, etc.  Maybe 400 feet apart, 3-4 rounds to reach the other building seems about right.

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2009, 03:21:26 AM »
I suggest have the event take place on Ysgard it would the plain's purpose and would allow multiple games with the same characters with no real death penalties.

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2009, 03:28:22 AM »
Sorry to hear that it ended so poorly, Kal.  The game would be live, and I'm hoping I won't be the one running it - but odds are I'll end up with the job for at least one round so the ones who came up with the idea could run through it.

Keeping it 1st or 2nd level seems to be the most attractive option, though.  Terrain...hmm.  I was picturing the basic Halo 2 map for CTF, the outdoor one with the two forts and a few jeeps, etc.  Maybe 400 feet apart, 3-4 rounds to reach the other building seems about right.

You'll wanna have mostly covered/terrained areas, otherwise it'll turn into a sniping gallery (main problem with Facing Worlds...it was a sniper battle).  A couple murder alleys aren't a bad thing, but otherwise you might as well tell everyone to optimize for ranged combat :P
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Kal Zakath

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2009, 03:42:44 AM »
One of the main things you should cover is respawn. As you are lower level characters tend to be more frail. Without a respawn mechanic you should prepare for someone to just make a team build to kill characters. If one team just centers on killing one member of the other team at a time, then it really isn't capture the flag, not to mention one-sided. If the other team is prepared it just comes down to a team vs. team royal, which is still not capture the flag. (Had a problem with both of these, then again, i had about 3 weeks discussing the idea with my players so i could alter the rules to cut this stuff off). I would second the idea of holding it on yasguard. Mainly becuase it gives the characters fast healing. I suggest something akin to the Power of a Xorivital dragon (credit to telehax for drawing my attention to the template). Make it so that all characters have fast healing 1 or 2. If dropped to -10 HP, the stay there and cannot go lower. After 1 round of not taking damage, they begin to heal, but remain unconsious until at full normal HP. Though this system would not be perfect, if takes longer for the Fighter to come back than the wizard. just some food for thought.

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2009, 01:10:01 PM »
One of the main things you should cover is respawn. As you are lower level characters tend to be more frail. Without a respawn mechanic you should prepare for someone to just make a team build to kill characters. If one team just centers on killing one member of the other team at a time, then it really isn't capture the flag, not to mention one-sided. If the other team is prepared it just comes down to a team vs. team royal, which is still not capture the flag. (Had a problem with both of these, then again, i had about 3 weeks discussing the idea with my players so i could alter the rules to cut this stuff off). I would second the idea of holding it on yasguard. Mainly becuase it gives the characters fast healing. I suggest something akin to the Power of a Xorivital dragon (credit to telehax for drawing my attention to the template). Make it so that all characters have fast healing 1 or 2. If dropped to -10 HP, the stay there and cannot go lower. After 1 round of not taking damage, they begin to heal, but remain unconsious until at full normal HP. Though this system would not be perfect, if takes longer for the Fighter to come back than the wizard. just some food for thought.

The problem with that is the what happens once the fighter comes back up?  Now you have him  behind enemy lines, or just getting continually coup de grace'd.  I would make the respawn time like 1-2 rounds and send them back to a prefigured spawn point.  Keeps the action moving and keeps players from clawing their way forward.

Example: Sorc with 10 con.  Say a ranger snipes him for 7 damage (lvl 1 game).  He falls to -3 hp.  Ranger moves on to take down that pesky fighter over there.  In 8(!) rounds the sorceror gets up and continues beelining for the flag with no one there.
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Akalsaris

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2009, 01:15:49 PM »
Good points everyone.  Maybe a 2-round respawn after being knocked unconscious, with PCs choosing a spot on their side's third of the map to respawn at. (to prevent spawn camping!)

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2009, 09:13:29 PM »
Be careful about items you admit.  One entangle could stop EVERYONE on their tracks!
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SixthDeclension

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2009, 10:16:39 PM »
As a variation in some of our Level 20 Gestalt PVP matches, we had a capture the flag game, where one team of 3 defended a castle that held a flag, the other team had to get it and bring it back to the starting point. Our DM at that point did not realize what a factotum//wizard could do...
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Surreal

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2009, 04:59:15 AM »
Each team definitely needs a guy to stay behind for defense and take the Dungeon Lord PrC.
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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 09:22:12 AM »
Hmm, this seems perfect for E6.

Everyone starts at level 1, but gets XP and cash for each kill (normal), assist(if you injure but don't deal the killing blow), defense (killing or assisting within the "home base" gives bonus XP and cash), and flag capture (This should give team resources, too). They can level and buy between games. Everyone should auto-level to be at most one level behind the highest level guy, or else it will be a downward spiral once you start falling behind. Once everyone is level 6 they only get cash and XP

Map sizes should grow as people level to allow for the increased options. On small maps you respawn within the home base after two rounds, on bigger maps its also no problem to respawn after one round, because just moving back to the action will take a while.

Obviously some things may need to be restricted, such as:

-You can't teleport into or out of home bases (and anyway teleport as a spell won't be available)
-You can't teleport with the flag
-I would say no summoning or calling, but that's a matter of taste, I guess. Summons obviously slow down the game
-Consumables have a limited allotment each game, OR could perhaps even be quick-bought within the game (for instance as a full-round action)
-The usual others that don't make a sensible game, such as infinite loops of any kind, etc.

RobbyPants

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2009, 12:23:50 PM »
Has anyone done something similar to this before?  I've run arena play, PC army vs army, and PC vs PC, but not a game where the victory conditions weren't set on PC death.
I did this back in 2E, and even built the arena using the board pieces from Warhammer Quest.  It was a fun break from normal play, and I really only did it because only half of the group could show up, so I didn't want to run a normal adventure.

IIRC, I think this was a part of some larger arena matches, which included some type of team deathmatch, where I used some sort of resurrection collars to keep them all from staying dead.  Of course, this begs the question why everyone didn't have those collars all the time, but hey, we were having fun. :p
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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2009, 02:07:41 PM »
As a variation in some of our Level 20 Gestalt PVP matches, we had a capture the flag game, where one team of 3 defended a castle that held a flag, the other team had to get it and bring it back to the starting point. Our DM at that point did not realize what a factotum//wizard could do...

I think we had you in the second round. Once I sat on the flag you had to come out of Time Stop to grab it, at which point I Greater Celerity+Maze you.
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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 03:42:15 PM »
Hmm, this seems perfect for E6.

Everyone starts at level 1, but gets XP and cash for each kill (normal), assist(if you injure but don't deal the killing blow), defense (killing or assisting within the "home base" gives bonus XP and cash), and flag capture (This should give team resources, too). They can level and buy between games. Everyone should auto-level to be at most one level behind the highest level guy, or else it will be a downward spiral once you start falling behind. Once everyone is level 6 they only get cash and XP

Map sizes should grow as people level to allow for the increased options. On small maps you respawn within the home base after two rounds, on bigger maps its also no problem to respawn after one round, because just moving back to the action will take a while.

Obviously some things may need to be restricted, such as:

-You can't teleport into or out of home bases (and anyway teleport as a spell won't be available)
-You can't teleport with the flag
-I would say no summoning or calling, but that's a matter of taste, I guess. Summons obviously slow down the game
-Consumables have a limited allotment each game, OR could perhaps even be quick-bought within the game (for instance as a full-round action)
-The usual others that don't make a sensible game, such as infinite loops of any kind, etc.

This would be better for long term games but seems too time consuming for a quick one shot.
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SixthDeclension

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 05:59:58 PM »
As a variation in some of our Level 20 Gestalt PVP matches, we had a capture the flag game, where one team of 3 defended a castle that held a flag, the other team had to get it and bring it back to the starting point. Our DM at that point did not realize what a factotum//wizard could do...

I think we had you in the second round. Once I sat on the flag you had to come out of Time Stop to grab it, at which point I Greater Celerity+Maze you.

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 06:28:23 PM »
The more I ponder on it, the more I think this could be a really neat idea. +1 to keeping the level low, no higher than 6, level 4 may also be a good cut off point just so the characters are quicker to make.

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Re: Capture the Flag D&D
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2009, 07:35:25 PM »

This would be better for long term games but seems too time consuming for a quick one shot.
Yeah, that was the idea. A tourney campaign.

Or you could work a few matches like that into a normal campaign, might be fun.