Off-topic chatter

[PhaedrusXY]

So... what are you guys going to do next, and what are you going to do with all these goblins? 

I propose Ritual sacrifices, as per BoVD. Let's see if we can get our K (Religion) mod high enough to get a Limited Wish.
I've no idea who we'd be sacrificing stuff to, though.

I have a suggestion.  The new Pantheon head could probably grant some mean wishes. 

And... I'm sure there are plenty of demon/devil lords and gods out there who would gladly support you in your quest. They might appreciate discretion though, as indiscretion could bring the wrong kind of attention for both you and them.

Also, if you guys want to do that to enter the Wish Economy, I'm fine with it. You don't have to use sacrifices to do it, but if you want to, that's fine with me.

[Kuroimaken]

Oooooo, Wish Economy time!

[PhaedrusXY]

Assuming you guys decide to go after the Wish economy thing... and use sacrifices to get someone's attention...

I rolled Knowledge (The Planes) for Sejanus, when I saw that he had a +8 to Knowledge (The Planes)... 1d20+8=27

So I'll use him as an NPC to offer a suggestion on whom you might call on in the game thread.

[Agita]

Do we have enough sacrifices and someone with ranks in K (Religion) to make the DC 50 check for a Limited Wish, though? Ris-Janna has only one rank. I suppose it could be enough with skill boosters... >_>

Also, Gray armor now has abilities.

    Hide Ranks: Benefit
    4: The armor acts as though it's Glamered, but never looks like anything that isn't a dark color.
    8: You may hide while being observed without taking a special action.
    13: Once per turn, you may Feint as a free action.
    18: You gain concealment.

Ooh, shiny.

[PhaedrusXY]

Do we have enough sacrifices and someone with ranks in K (Religion) to make the DC 50 check for a Limited Wish, though? Ris-Janna has only one rank. I suppose it could be enough with skill boosters... >_>

Also, Gray armor now has abilities.

    Hide Ranks: Benefit
    4: The armor acts as though it's Glamered, but never looks like anything that isn't a dark color.
    8: You may hide while being observed without taking a special action.
    13: Once per turn, you may Feint as a free action.
    18: You gain concealment.

Ooh, shiny.

Yeah, if you like that then use it. If you don't, feel free to keep using what you have, or pick a different one.

And... don't worry too much about the DC. As Raoul said, you guys are on kind of an important quest... You might get an unexpected "circumstance bonus"... (Besides, no one can come even remotely close to getting a DC 50 in this group, as far as I can see, which is as it should be. I was planning to not allow crazy shit like Guidance of the Avatar, anyway. Whoever wrote that spell needs to be horse whipped.)

[Agita]

Well, I guess Limited Wish is only a DC 40, DC 50 is an actual, honest-to-god (heh) Wish.

Shadowlord casting says a TFS "prepares and casts spells as a wizard". Does that mean he also needs a spellbook?

[VennDygrem]

So from my estimates we pretty much just have the two Bards left, who are still nauseated. Raoul could easily enough take them out I imagine. Or we could just toss them into the pit with the other goblins and be done with it. They're not going anywhere anyway.

Cade isn't going to be too keen on sacrificing the goblins. If he allows it, I imagine that would be enough to shift him to Evil.
He's Chaotic Neutral, so he's no goody two-shoes, but neither is he evil, and unless I'm mistaken sacrificing lives to some dark figure is pretty damn evil (Here, have these fresh souls! Now if you'll excuse me I'm late for volunteering down at the shelter). The Demon isn't a separate entity, either, just a fragment of his psyche that represents his more chaotic tendencies, while the Monk is the fragment representing his more morally neutral and disciplined tendencies. There's no way to have a dual-alignment, so Chaotic Neutral is the closest I get.

Now, as for that UMD check, the highest current DC is 30 to emulate an alignment, while the DC is only 20 to emulate a class feature. There are two ways to justify the UMD check for a relic, as we're going for. One is to emulate the item's requirement to worship a specific deity (emulating a class feature/alignment) and the ability to 'sacrifice a divine spell slot' (sort of a combination of activating a divine scroll/wand and emulating a class feature), or having the True Believer feat. If you consider the second one, you need to come up with the proper DC at which you can emulate a feat for the sake of activating an item (which could be further useful for other magic items, I'm sure). Maybe 20 + the minimum level at which the feat can be acquired? I'm sure there are other concepts that could work as well.

[PhaedrusXY]

At least one or two of the fighters are in the negatives instead of outright dead, also, and I think at least 3 of the worgs are in the same boat, if anyone wants to save them, convert them into something, etc... (I kind of quit paying attention once they weren't active anymore, but I know several of them were just barely dropped).

[Agita]

I'm fine either way - hell, a Candle of Invocation is an 11th-level item, we could just get one and get into the wish economy that way if we want to. I'm also fine with not entering the WE, sacrificing people for fun and profit is simply the first thing I think of when I have lots of NPCs at my mercy and am asked what to do with them.

Whatever we decide on, Ris-Janna should be updated now. Dipped in Cleric to get Blind Fighting and Improved Initiative, retrained the old Blind Fighting to Iron Will. Upgraded the vanilla magic dagger to a level 11 Eager magic dagger, got some stuff from Umbral Awn (Ghost touch and moar SA), added an item of +Hide (might make this +Move Silently instead) to my armor to make it a level 12 item, added an item of +Con to my Ring of Darkhidden to make it a level 10.
Debating taking up Phaedrus's offer on keeping the old Silk Steel abilities on Gray armor.
Enchantments depending on fractions of the character's level round up so everything is a +3 whatever now, correct?

[VennDygrem]

Where are you getting this level 11 and 12 gear from? I thought our max right now was 10th for starting gear.

[PhaedrusXY]

I'm fine either way - hell, a Candle of Invocation is an 11th-level item, we could just get one and get into the wish economy that way if we want to.

Yes, that works. Once you're in, item levels cease to matter, really.

In fact... as I've alluded to, I have an idea for how you guys enter the Wish economy, if you want to go with it... It would center around being involved with the minions of a powerful cosmic entity that has a very keen interest in your party's quest (yes, even more so than most other beings in the universe...), but I promise not to railroad you too much using it. And if you'd rather avoid all such "entanglements", that's fine, also...

I'll have Sejanus bring it up in character, and you guys can debate it in or out of character, as you wish.

I'm also fine with not entering the WE, sacrificing people for fun and profit is simply the first thing I think of when I have lots of NPCs at my mercy and am asked what to do with them.

Such a nice person...  

Enchantments depending on fractions of the character's level round up so everything is a +3 whatever now, correct?

That's right.

Where are you getting this level 11 and 12 gear from? I thought our max right now was 10th for starting gear.

The max is now 12th since you guys leveled up. See the chart in the Rules thread. I copied/pasted the relevant part below, though.

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm. I can't recall whether I'm supposed to be able to cast in light armor with no ASF or not... those armors are looking pretty sweet!

[PhaedrusXY]

Hmmm. I can't recall whether I'm supposed to be able to cast in light armor with no ASF or not... those armors are looking pretty sweet!

I'm pretty sure the warmage can. He can also take Battlecaster to upgrade the level of armor he can cast in. Also, take a look at the Gith armor in that list, if you haven't. And finally, if we go with the Tome rules for ASF, it is just the armor check penalty multiplied by 5. So anything with a 0 ACP is also 0% ASF.

[PhaedrusXY]

Ok, so two questions for everyone, which I've already broached in the IC thread using Sejanus as an NPC.

1) Do you want to get into the Wish economy?

2) Is having a "patron" provide you with things an ok way of doing that for you guys?


And... I guess even if we don't get into the Wish economy, we could still use the Patron as a way of providing you with equipment.


We don't have to do any of this, if you don't want to. It's just an idea.

[Agita]

1) Do you want to get into the Wish economy?

I'm neutral either way. If someone says they don't want it because it's "too easy", I could see where they're coming from.

2) Is having a "patron" provide you with things an ok way of doing that for you guys?

Ris-Janna would probably be reluctant, especially if the patron has anything to do at all with the lower planes, but as a player I'm fine with it.

[PhaedrusXY]

1) Do you want to get into the Wish economy?

I'm neutral either way. If someone says they don't want it because it's "too easy", I could see where they're coming from.

You should be worried about the exact opposite, I'd say. If you guys use it, expect to face NPCs that also use it. After all, I can basically treat all items that are worth 15,000 gp or less as "trash", then, and not worry about sticking as much of that stuff on them as I want. 

2) Is having a "patron" provide you with things an ok way of doing that for you guys?

Ris-Janna would probably be reluctant, especially if the patron has anything to do at all with the lower planes, but as a player I'm fine with it.

As I said in the IC thread, the one I had in mind is Merorem, the Darkwind, servant of Dispater (Lord of the 2nd layer of Hell). He's like a CR 57 Cosmic Entity with insane powers over time. Of course... you'd only be dealing directly with the least of his minions, and even they'd insist upon being discreet and only offering you minimal assistance (basically, just getting you level-appropriate items as you request them).

[Kuroimaken]

The answer to both questions, on my grounds, are "Hell yeah".

In fact, it kinda feels like this RPG I've got in mind.

[VennDygrem]

I mentioned Cade's thoughts on this in the IC thread. Not that he or I are against having a patron, but I've got to RP this out first at least.
As for wish economy, I'll go with whatever the group decides on. It doesn't matter as much to me. Though, we're going to need to find some way to get access to higher level gear because we're definitely not going to find it in a Mom-n-Pop store.

Also, what do you think of the UMD DC thing, Phaedrus? What would be a proper DC?

The max is now 12th since you guys leveled up. See the chart in the Rules thread. I copied/pasted the relevant part below, though.

Ah, I didn't remember seeing any mention of us leveling up. Must have glanced past it.

[Agita]

Just checking with the rest real quick: Is it okay to CdG the barghest, just in case? I figure he's good as dead anyway, but maybe X or someone wants to tie him up and interrogate him anyway.

[PhaedrusXY]

Also, what do you think of the UMD DC thing, Phaedrus? What would be a proper DC?

Ok, I don't think I'd allow you to emulate spending a divine spell slot at all with UMD. I might let you instead expend an equivalent arcane one, and fool the item into thinking it was divine. I'm not sure what DC to put on that, though... Maybe the DC 20 for "emulating a class feature".

For emulating a feat... hmm... there are very few items that require a feat in the first place. In fact, the relics are the only ones I can think of, and they all require the same feat: True Believer. Emulating that I'd think would be akin to emulating an alignment, so let's go with DC 30. I am tempted to say that it should even be higher though...

Just checking with the rest real quick: Is it okay to CdG the barghest, just in case? I figure he's good as dead anyway, but maybe X or someone wants to tie him up and interrogate him anyway.

X said in the encounter thread that he'd prefer to take him alive, and he was asking me about turning him into an uncontrolled undead. I guess technically he could do that... but I don't know that it is a good idea.



If you guys decide not to have a "patron", I still have an idea for how you could get new, specific, magic items without invoking "Ye Olde Magik Shoppe", whether you go for the Wish economy or not. In fact... it is probably more interesting than the "Patron" idea...