Author Topic: Off-topic chatter  (Read 165297 times)

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Bozwevial

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #900 on: June 24, 2010, 01:47:12 PM »
I think the rules on using wish to improve existing items was already detailed either in one of the Tomes or my house rules. In any case, you know my interpretation now. The 15k is a hard cap on total item value, not a limit on the "upgrade" cost. We can drop the cost of adding the +1 starting enhancement bonus on armor and weapons though, since all magic armor and weapons have a scaling enhancement bonus with our rules. So you'd be able to add +3 total additional enhancements to armor, and +2 to weapons. I don't think I'll regret that...

So since the listed +3 armor in the MiC is about 9,000 gp (more if you include the masterwork costs, but I don't even know what the masterwork costs are for the Tome armor, if they exist), we could theoretically slap on some of the flat cost enhancements to boost that up to a full 15k?

Agita

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #901 on: June 24, 2010, 02:06:20 PM »
Also, what costs do Tome magic item qualities like Dispelling in... wherever they put their magic item rules count as? I'm seeing basically a better version of the Dispelling enchantment listed there as a Lesser property and wondering what that means.

Also, How angry would you get at me if I asked to upgrade my Darkstalker item with a Lightning Reflexes item for Evasion on top of it? :P Amusingly, that's actually about the only ability I can use from it for now aside from the basic +3 Reflex (since that would put my Ref save above my Balance mod). I figure Raoul might like it if he could fire off his AoEs without having to worry about hitting the one chick in the party with them.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #902 on: June 24, 2010, 03:33:59 PM »
I think the rules on using wish to improve existing items was already detailed either in one of the Tomes or my house rules. In any case, you know my interpretation now. The 15k is a hard cap on total item value, not a limit on the "upgrade" cost. We can drop the cost of adding the +1 starting enhancement bonus on armor and weapons though, since all magic armor and weapons have a scaling enhancement bonus with our rules. So you'd be able to add +3 total additional enhancements to armor, and +2 to weapons. I don't think I'll regret that...

So since the listed +3 armor in the MiC is about 9,000 gp (more if you include the masterwork costs, but I don't even know what the masterwork costs are for the Tome armor, if they exist), we could theoretically slap on some of the flat cost enhancements to boost that up to a full 15k?
Yes. And we're ignoring all non-magical costs entirely. So it can be adamantine or whatever "for free".

You could also add abilities from things not normally part of armor, like adding the power of a Lesser Metamagic Rod to your armor, if you want. (Raoul's sword is an example.) I don't really care, as long as you only have 8 items attuned, and those items are worth 15k or less in total. There is no extra cost for adding the properties of items together, either. So a set of armor with +3 worth of abilities and the power of a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend would be worth 12k (9k+3k).

Also, what costs do Tome magic item qualities like Dispelling in... wherever they put their magic item rules count as? I'm seeing basically a better version of the Dispelling enchantment listed there as a Lesser property and wondering what that means.
We've been ignoring their "Lesser, Medium, and Major" item classification system. They've basically done away with pricing things in terms of gold pieces entirely. A lesser property would probably be worth about a +1 or +2 enhancement equivalent, depending on what it does. So it would be available via Wish. Medium and Major items wouldn't.

Quote
Also, How angry would you get at me if I asked to upgrade my Darkstalker item with a Lightning Reflexes item for Evasion on top of it? :P Amusingly, that's actually about the only ability I can use from it for now aside from the basic +3 Reflex (since that would put my Ref save above my Balance mod). I figure Raoul might like it if he could fire off his AoEs without having to worry about hitting the one chick in the party with them.
Hmm... I think the Ring of Evasion is actually slightly overpriced, but probably not so much that you could combine it with your Darkstalker item. I'd let you have a Ring of Evasion with a Wish, but you wouldn't be able to upgrade it or add it to another item with a Wish.

And I'd really prefer not to make up custom prices for magic items that grant Tome feats. If you get a bonus feat from a class feature, like your domains from Cloistered Cleric, we can "upgrade" that to the Tome version if it exists. For magic items, I don't think they should be able to provide Tome feats, at least not "lesser" items that you can get from Wish. They're just too damned good.

Later on, once you get to the point where items worth more than 15k are level appropriate (per the chart I posted in the House Rules thread), you can do a ritual (or however you want to describe/RP it) to add the properties of a Ring of Evasion to your Darkstalker item, if you want. We might also let Moderate magic items grant Tome feats, but I don't think they should be available via Wishing.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

HeadofVecna

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #903 on: June 24, 2010, 04:50:14 PM »
I think the rules on using wish to improve existing items was already detailed either in one of the Tomes or my house rules. In any case, you know my interpretation now. The 15k is a hard cap on total item value, not a limit on the "upgrade" cost. We can drop the cost of adding the +1 starting enhancement bonus on armor and weapons though, since all magic armor and weapons have a scaling enhancement bonus with our rules. So you'd be able to add +3 total additional enhancements to armor, and +2 to weapons. I don't think I'll regret that...

So since the listed +3 armor in the MiC is about 9,000 gp (more if you include the masterwork costs, but I don't even know what the masterwork costs are for the Tome armor, if they exist), we could theoretically slap on some of the flat cost enhancements to boost that up to a full 15k?
Yes. And we're ignoring all non-magical costs entirely. So it can be adamantine or whatever "for free".

You could also add abilities from things not normally part of armor, like adding the power of a Lesser Metamagic Rod to your armor, if you want. (Raoul's sword is an example.) I don't really care, as long as you only have 8 items attuned, and those items are worth 15k or less in total. There is no extra cost for adding the properties of items together, either. So a set of armor with +3 worth of abilities and the power of a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend would be worth 12k (9k+3k).

I thought that the way scaling works is that +3 armor (on a lvl 8-10 character) would only be 1k.  Or do you only have to pay extra if you're trying to get the extra +1?

Also, nonstandard abilities (not armor, enchantment bonuses etc.) still cost an extra 50% after the first right? So +3 armor of Extend with Handy Haversack pockets would be 1k + 3k + (2k * 1 .5) = 7k, right? wrong?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #904 on: June 24, 2010, 04:56:25 PM »
I thought that the way scaling works is that +3 armor (on a lvl 8-10 character) would only be 1k.  Or do you only have to pay extra if you're trying to get the extra +1?
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but here is the way we're doing it: You can't use a Wish to improve the total value of an item above 15k. It doesn't matter what the item started out as, or what the difference is between the original and final item value. All that matters is the total value of the final product. Wish cannot increase the total value of an item to above 15k gp.

Quote
Also, nonstandard abilities (not armor, enchantment bonuses etc.) still cost an extra 50% after the first right? So +3 armor of Extend with Handy Haversack pockets would be 1k + 3k + (2k * 1 .5) = 7k, right? wrong?
No. There is no extra cost for adding items together. At all. Sorry if you did a bunch of calculations assuming that there was an extra cost... I thought I'd said this before, but I could be mistaken...


Edit: I guess I didn't explicitly say that before. Here is what I wrote:
Quote
Combining magic items is totally fine, as long as they are appropriate for your level in the end. Use the Magic Item Compendium rules for doing so, and feel free to change the slots around if you want. Like I said, we're not using body slots as a restriction at all. So there is no extra cost for changing slots, or even making things slotless.
I was under the impression that the extra cost was for adding an item to a non-appropriate body slot, and since we're not using body slots, then it wouldn't apply. I guess there is also a different 50% markup just for combining items, though. But we're going to ignore that, too.

Anyway, I'll edit the house rules to make it explicit that you can combine magic items however you want, with no "tax" for doing so, no matter what slot they normally take up, or whatever. Sorry for the confusion.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 05:19:00 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #905 on: June 24, 2010, 06:12:01 PM »
]Hmm... I think the Ring of Evasion is actually slightly overpriced, but probably not so much that you could combine it with your Darkstalker item. I'd let you have a Ring of Evasion with a Wish, but you wouldn't be able to upgrade it or add it to another item with a Wish.

And I'd really prefer not to make up custom prices for magic items that grant Tome feats. If you get a bonus feat from a class feature, like your domains from Cloistered Cleric, we can "upgrade" that to the Tome version if it exists. For magic items, I don't think they should be able to provide Tome feats, at least not "lesser" items that you can get from Wish. They're just too damned good.

Later on, once you get to the point where items worth more than 15k are level appropriate (per the chart I posted in the House Rules thread), you can do a ritual (or however you want to describe/RP it) to add the properties of a Ring of Evasion to your Darkstalker item, if you want. We might also let Moderate magic items grant Tome feats, but I don't think they should be available via Wishing.
Cool with me. Tome feats are indeed not really comparable to core feats. Gonna have to figure out how to fit that in. Hm... I was gonna ditch the Ring of Darkhidden since I can now use and see in magical darkness, have HiPS, and my hide mod is high enough anyway, but then I remembered that I have that attached to my +Con item. :P
Let's see... we were assuming that +Ability items have a base cost of 4k, skill items 2.5k, and vanilla magic armor 1k, right? If I remember that correctly, that would mean my magic grey armor is a 7.5k item right now, which... doesn't match up with the level 12 I've got noted, actually. Maybe I was assuming that adding items costs extra as well? In any case, max cost on a level 12 item is 10k, so if I'm remembering at all correctly, adding a +Con item to that shouldn't be a problem. Then I'd be able to ditch my Darkstalker ring in favor of the Ring of Evasion.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #906 on: June 24, 2010, 06:15:24 PM »
You can replace every item you have with an item worth up to 15k, and have as many new items you want that are worth 15k. Or you can upgrade all (or some) of your old items to 15k value. So having +2 Con attached to an item isn't really a problem. Throw it in the trash, and Wish for a new one that has the properties you want. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #907 on: June 24, 2010, 06:29:44 PM »
You can replace every item you have with an item worth up to 15k, and have as many new items you want that are worth 15k. Or you can upgrade all (or some) of your old items to 15k value. So having +2 Con attached to an item isn't really a problem. Throw it in the trash, and Wish for a new one that has the properties you want. :P
Well, under the rules we're using, all those items scale, right? So we decided on a baseline cost at some time, I think.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #908 on: June 24, 2010, 06:33:22 PM »
You can replace every item you have with an item worth up to 15k, and have as many new items you want that are worth 15k. Or you can upgrade all (or some) of your old items to 15k value. So having +2 Con attached to an item isn't really a problem. Throw it in the trash, and Wish for a new one that has the properties you want. :P
Well, under the rules we're using, all those items scale, right? So we decided on a baseline cost at some time, I think.
Yeah, that's right. I think it's posted in the thread on this forum. Or at least it should be... :P

Edit: Yeah, it's there. First post in the game info thread on this forum.
Quote
Magic items that just provide a bonus scale with your levels according to the chart found here. They "cost" the amount of whatever the least magic item of that type costs (So "magic armor" costs 1000 gp, plus the mundane item's cost). Items that provide a bonus to an ability score start at +2 (and 4000 gp), but do scale through odd numbers as you level (so at level 9 they'd give you a +3). Items that provide a competence bonus to a skill start at +5 (and 2500 gp) and provide a bonus equal to your character level (or 5, whichever his higher).
I think for the purposes of Wish, we're going to ignore the starting cost for armor and weapons, though. (The cost to add a +1 enhancement bonus.) So you guys could get a Holy Weapon, if you want (+2 equivalent), for example. It would of course still have an enhancement bonus that scales with your level.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 06:37:14 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #909 on: June 24, 2010, 07:01:36 PM »
Having a DM who digs through his own threads for me is so darn handy. :D ;)

You can replace every item you have with an item worth up to 15k, and have as many new items you want that are worth 15k. Or you can upgrade all (or some) of your old items to 15k value. So having +2 Con attached to an item isn't really a problem. Throw it in the trash, and Wish for a new one that has the properties you want. :P
Well, under the rules we're using, all those items scale, right? So we decided on a baseline cost at some time, I think.
Yeah, that's right. I think it's posted in the thread on this forum. Or at least it should be... :P

Edit: Yeah, it's there. First post in the game info thread on this forum.
Quote
Magic items that just provide a bonus scale with your levels according to the chart found here. They "cost" the amount of whatever the least magic item of that type costs (So "magic armor" costs 1000 gp, plus the mundane item's cost). Items that provide a bonus to an ability score start at +2 (and 4000 gp), but do scale through odd numbers as you level (so at level 9 they'd give you a +3). Items that provide a competence bonus to a skill start at +5 (and 2500 gp) and provide a bonus equal to your character level (or 5, whichever his higher).
I think for the purposes of Wish, we're going to ignore the starting cost for armor and weapons, though. (The cost to add a +1 enhancement bonus.) So you guys could get a Holy Weapon, if you want (+2 equivalent), for example. It would of course still have an enhancement bonus that scales with your level.
Okay. I was tripped up by the +2 item comment, since Tome of Gears says to round fractions up for scaling items.
Starting costs are ignored, you say? Cool. Let's see what I can do with that. :D
Would putting Warning on one of my daggers be Initiative overkill? :plot
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #910 on: June 24, 2010, 07:14:54 PM »
Okay. I was tripped up by the +2 item comment, since Tome of Gears says to round fractions up for scaling items.
Starting costs are ignored, you say? Cool. Let's see what I can do with that. :D
Would putting Warning on one of my daggers be Initiative overkill? :plot
Ignored for weapons and armor only. Not for other things, like stat boosters, skill boosters, etc.

You could fit Eager and Warning on one, if you want. :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #911 on: June 24, 2010, 07:18:36 PM »
Okay. I was tripped up by the +2 item comment, since Tome of Gears says to round fractions up for scaling items.
Starting costs are ignored, you say? Cool. Let's see what I can do with that. :D
Would putting Warning on one of my daggers be Initiative overkill? :plot
Ignored for weapons and armor only. Not for other things, like stat boosters, skill boosters, etc.
That's what I was assuming, yes.

You could fit Eager and Warning on one, if you want. :P
Exactly. I already have Eager on one of my daggers. :D
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VennDygrem

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #912 on: June 24, 2010, 07:44:49 PM »
Okay. I was tripped up by the +2 item comment, since Tome of Gears says to round fractions up for scaling items.
Starting costs are ignored, you say? Cool. Let's see what I can do with that. :D
Would putting Warning on one of my daggers be Initiative overkill? :plot
Ignored for weapons and armor only. Not for other things, like stat boosters, skill boosters, etc.
That's what I was assuming, yes.

You could fit Eager and Warning on one, if you want. :P
Exactly. I already have Eager on one of my daggers. :D

I was considering adding those to my Necklace of Natural weapons since my initiative sucks so bad, though I'm still not sure.
There are some really funny interpretations of how certain weapon enchantments would work on a monk with them applied to unarmed strike/slam, especially since the conceit is that they strike with any part of their body. So, in munchkin-land, Sizing would let a monk become colossal or fine sized, Metalline would turn the monk into just about any kind of metal, shielding would allow them to turn into a heavy steel shield (quite the funny disguise, really), and given the interpretation on the wording on Ghost Touch, a Ghost Touch Monk would be crazy (due to the line "Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.")

I know it doesn't all work like that, but I can see how people could justify it. It's just funny to think about, really. :P

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #913 on: June 24, 2010, 11:32:10 PM »
I might allow some of that, actually. Maybe all...  :p
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #914 on: June 25, 2010, 03:42:00 AM »
I might allow some of that, actually. Maybe all...  :p

Yeah, only because now I've given you ideas of stuff to hit back at us with. :P
I believe you said we've got a gentleman's agreement, so that if we use something, you've got free reign to use it right back. I'm afraid of what that would mean for us.  :lmao
 
Still, that ghost touch thing is an issue of semantics, as it usually is with the rules in this game. For a +1 bonus, assuming the above interpretation, that would essentially give me the incorporeal subtype at-will (gaining essentially only its advantages while ignoring most of its disadvantages, such as giving me constant Displacement (50% miss chance), 100% move silently success, Melee Touch attacks, and a phasing ability). All because of one little line.  :rollseyes

I doubt you're willing to put up with a colossal-sized Monk who can sink into the ground and attack his enemies from below, grabbing and holding them down against the ground toward an earthy demise. As absolutely bad-ass as that is. :P
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 04:40:45 AM by VennDygrem »

Prime32

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #915 on: June 25, 2010, 06:44:35 AM »
Still, that ghost touch thing is an issue of semantics, as it usually is with the rules in this game. For a +1 bonus, assuming the above interpretation, that would essentially give me the incorporeal subtype at-will (gaining essentially only its advantages while ignoring most of its disadvantages, such as giving me constant Displacement (50% miss chance), 100% move silently success, Melee Touch attacks, and a phasing ability). All because of one little line.  :rollseyes
Not so awesome when you're using Races of War and your enemies could have the Ghost Hunter feat.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 08:49:52 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #916 on: June 25, 2010, 06:54:01 AM »
True, though you'll have to assume that every enemy thrown against us has custom feats or class levels (which of course has indeed been common to most of our enemies), and also that every single one of them has that feat. For starters, there's no fluff reason that every single enemy should have that feat. Furthermore, that's using up a feat slot just to negate the abilities of one party member, and in most cases, that's not sound logic. Plus, it negates the touch attacks and displacement-like miss chance, but doesn't negate the phasing ability, which would still grant cover/total cover against their attacks. It also doesn't negate Cade turning into Cadezilla. :P

Assuming that a handful of enemies we go up against might have that feat, or even ghost touch weapons or armor, a lot of them won't (for the same reason that not every adventurer always has that stuff on them- you've got to know the chances of going up against those creatures, or have reason to suspect that you might at some point), and the advantages would still be fairly worthwhile.

Also, keep in mind that the trick, as it were, also could apply in a non-Tome game, assuming the DM of a core game were crazy enough to let this slide in the first place. :)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 06:58:47 AM by VennDygrem »

Prime32

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #917 on: June 25, 2010, 09:24:01 AM »
Speaking of which, Kuro? I'd been looking for a way to let Eren take larger forms...
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Kuroimaken

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #918 on: June 25, 2010, 01:18:30 PM »
Yes, you can use the Sizing trick on her. I don't mind if you make her the Mimic-Dragon female version of Apache Chief.  :p
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

I HAVE BROKEN THE 69 INTERNETS BARRIER!


PhaedrusXY

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Re: Off-topic chatter
« Reply #919 on: June 25, 2010, 05:24:16 PM »
So would anyone mind if I got rid of maneuver prereqs for martial adepts? You'd still need to be able to choose the manuever based on your IL and class. This would just get rid of the prereqs to have other maneuvers to choose certain maneuvers. This would make it a LOT easier to generate martial adepts that start out above 1st level... which admittedly is mainly for my benefit... but still...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]