Pathfinder Swashbuckler Help

[winter_soldier]

"I think I'm going to make sure he has Vexing and Adaptable Flanker ASAP, etc."

Or is that a trap? On one hand, it makes some sense for a crazy-high DEX character like mine to take Combat Reflexes (which is a prereq for AF & VF), but since he's not wielding reach weapons, I'm not so sure.

Is any Tome of Battle material allowed in this game?  If so, you might conisder taking the Island of Blades stance with martial study which is pretty similar to Adaptive Flanker.  This also sets you up to take Shadow Blade to get +Dex to damage if you use certain weapons (such as the dagger or shortsword).

Ha ha....oh lord, no. One of the players in our group played a Crusader for a while, and he was so much more effective than everybody else in the game, it was ridiculous. It resulted in all sorts of power creep, and eventually my DM outlawed the  BO9S. Shame, really.

[djibril]

See i have a rougue 4 /swashbuckler 3 /shadowdancer 3, 2 weapon combat style (weapon finessed +1 keen rapier and weapon finessed +1 dagger), improved faint and combat reflexes , so that i get to sneak attack a lot during melee with a succesfull bluff check

I was looking into something like this yesterday, but doesn't feinting only work on the next melee attack?  So, it kind of kills the idea of using it b/c you can't churn out the number of attacks necessary for sneak attack to rock.  Is there a part of the feat or something (perhaps a PF change) that I'm missing? 

That led me to a variation based on Imperious Command and the Drow Fighter ACF, which could be kind of thematic. 

I'm somewhat skeptical of Combat Reflexes's real usefulness for characters without reach weapons.

Improved faint makes your faint a move action instead of a standard one so you can faint and then sneak attack at your max attack rate with combat reflexes (wich allow to use your full attack during a opportunity round instead of a single attack)

Don't know if it's right but this way my master allows me to make a sneak attack for every attack i can make during the opportunity round (combat reflexes)

[djibril]

[Unbeliever]

See i have a rougue 4 /swashbuckler 3 /shadowdancer 3, 2 weapon combat style (weapon finessed +1 keen rapier and weapon finessed +1 dagger), improved faint and combat reflexes , so that i get to sneak attack a lot during melee with a succesfull bluff check

I was looking into something like this yesterday, but doesn't feinting only work on the next melee attack?  So, it kind of kills the idea of using it b/c you can't churn out the number of attacks necessary for sneak attack to rock.  Is there a part of the feat or something (perhaps a PF change) that I'm missing? 

That led me to a variation based on Imperious Command and the Drow Fighter ACF, which could be kind of thematic. 

I'm somewhat skeptical of Combat Reflexes's real usefulness for characters without reach weapons.

Improved faint makes your faint a move action instead of a standard one so you can faint and then sneak attack at your max attack rate with combat reflexes (wich allow to use your full attack during a opportunity round instead of a single attack)

Don't know if it's right but this way my master allows me to make a sneak attack for every attack i can make during the opportunity round (combat reflexes)

Note 1:  your DM is being generous w/ you.  I'm pretty sure it says under the Bluff skill and in the Rules Compendium that it's your next attack that they're flat-footed against.  Although I'm not against some love for rogues, although given my general feeling about Pathfinder they are one of the few stabbity peoples who got any real love. 

Note 2: You keep on bringing up combat reflexes.  When does that ever really come up for your character?  Is the guy you bluff sauntering by you?  I could see something like Robilar's working, but otherwise I don't get it.  Is it a Pathfinder thing that I'm missing?  You also referred to the "opportunity round" -- is that another Pathfinder thing? 

[Akalsaris]

I think djibril's DM simply has a number of very different house-rules or doesn't fully understand the mechanics, or a combination of the two.

Basically, it appears that they are ruling that if you succeed at a feint attempt as a move action and have combat reflexes, then you can make a full attack during the surprise round, with each attack gaining sneak attack dice. 

Yes, it breaks a number of rules about the surprise round being a single action, etc, but the PCs are happy and it makes 2 mediocre feats (3 counting combat expertise) into a strong combination, so I'd say his DM seems to be on the right track here.

[Operation Shoestring]

Ha ha....oh lord, no. One of the players in our group played a Crusader for a while, and he was so much more effective than everybody else in the game, it was ridiculous. It resulted in all sorts of power creep, and eventually my DM outlawed the  BO9S. Shame, really.

So this is a no-caster game then?

[djibril]

I think djibril's DM simply has a number of very different house-rules or doesn't fully understand the mechanics, or a combination of the two.

Basically, it appears that they are ruling that if you succeed at a feint attempt as a move action and have combat reflexes, then you can make a full attack during the surprise round, with each attack gaining sneak attack dice. 

Yes, it breaks a number of rules about the surprise round being a single action, etc, but the PCs are happy and it makes 2 mediocre feats (3 counting combat expertise) into a strong combination, so I'd say his DM seems to be on the right track here.

Yeah you got it right, i forgot to mention combat expertise but this is pretty much the deal.

I asked him and he told house-ruling was the only way to make my character effective in melee since i'm the only melee-ish PC in a party with no other warriors...

[Akalsaris]

Yeah, I figured it was something along those lines.

It's nice to see another OOTS forum avatar btw

[RobbyPants]

Ha ha....oh lord, no. One of the players in our group played a Crusader for a while, and he was so much more effective than everybody else in the game, it was ridiculous. It resulted in all sorts of power creep, and eventually my DM outlawed the  BO9S. Shame, really.

Figures, but it was worth a shot.  It's a shame the game has so little support for light armored swashbuckler types that aren't rogues.

[Unbeliever]

It's a shame the game has so little support for light armored swashbuckler types that aren't rogues.

+1

On my agenda is to start a thread to see what BG can come up w/. 

[winter_soldier]

Ha ha....oh lord, no. One of the players in our group played a Crusader for a while, and he was so much more effective than everybody else in the game, it was ridiculous. It resulted in all sorts of power creep, and eventually my DM outlawed the  BO9S. Shame, really.

So this is a no-caster game then?

No, casters are allowed. Like I said in another thread, my DM is in for a rude awakening if he thinks the Fighter is more unbalanced than the Cleric and Wizard in our AOW game. The player playing the Wizard in our AOW game will be playing a Cleric in our upcoming Savage Tide game, and I can't wait to see the damage he's going to do.

[Akalsaris]

By the way, winter_soldier, is your user name from captain america's sidekick Bucky, or a reference to something else?

[winter_soldier]

By the way, winter_soldier, is your user name from captain america's sidekick Bucky, or a reference to something else?

I think my avatar answer that question. 

[winter_soldier]

Banging my head against the wall trying to plan the optimum feat progression. PF core only, plus a select few feats from 3.5 sources, most notably the PHB II. Any input/critiques would be appreciated.

1st: Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse (class bonus), Academy Graduate(background bonus), Double Slice (Human bonus), Iron Will (flaw)
3rd: Improved Initiative, Mobility (class bonus)
5th: Spring Attack
6th: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (class bonus)
7th; Two-Weapon Pounce (from the PHB II)
9th: Improved Critical (rapier) (hopefully not necessary, with a keen weapon?), Critical Focus (class bonus)
11th: Greater TWF
12th: Two-Weapon Rend (class bonus)
13th: Bleeding Critical
15th: Sickening Critical, ? (class bonus)
17th: Critical Mastery
18th: ? (class bonus)
19th: ?

[juton]

The prereqs require +2d6 Sneak Attack and Grace +1, so you'd either need 3 levels of rogue, or some other way to get the two dice.

The Grace +1 could be a problem, I don't think the Tome of Secrets Swashbuckler gets Grace.

[winter_soldier]

Well, my DM ruled that the Swashbuckler would be like the Warblade in that their level -2 would count as Fighter levels for the purposes of Feat qualification. At any rate, there are multiclassing feats that he's allowing for the campaign, and Daring Outlaw is NOT one of them.