Vow of Poverty and wizards

[snakeman830]

Well, a RAW VoP Wizard is inferior to almost everyone, since they have no spellbook.

[Lycanthromancer]

With the right ACFs and/or feats, wizards don't NEED spellbooks.

[Alastar]

With the right ACFs and/or feats, wizards don't NEED spellbooks.

You wanna play an int caster without a spellbook, play an erudite or a beguiler...

[Azrael]

I can only think of two times when VoP is worthwhile.

#1.) You're a druid.

#2.) You're a totemist.

And both of those only when you're in an extremely low-wealth campaign, though the druid is potentially about equal either way, depending on your exact playstyle and whether you can influence what items you can get.

Completely agree...

Why would you even want to take VoP with a wizard build, even if you could have your spellbook you would still miss out on very specific advantages magic items can give you which VoP never compensates for.

[altpersona]

how many CO or TO builds fall into the category of "why would you do that?"

[Azrael]

Usually only because it optimizes too much, not too little.

If the point is optimization, then wizards (even assuming spellbook allowed), and VoP, is anything but optimized. You want to have a sub-par character that's out shined by everyone else in the party, that's fine, just don't post it on the optimization board. Min/Max by definition is getting the most out of your character.

But this is really pointless, I think we have answered the original question well enough.

[PhaedrusXY]

Usually only because it optimizes too much, not too little.

If the point is optimization, then wizards (even assuming spellbook allowed), and VoP, is anything but optimized. You want to have a sub-par character that's out shined by everyone else in the party, that's fine, just don't post it on the optimization board. Min/Max by definition is getting the most out of your character.

But this is really pointless, I think we have answered the original question well enough.

Bah, that's a load of crap. Sometimes people just want to play something crazy, and it can be fun to try and optimize something within a defined set of constraints. If we were all just out to play the most powerful thing, we'd just write druid 20 or Pun Pun on our sheets and be done with it. But that's not fun, and is missing the point of what optimization is really for.

[altpersona]

the various VoP wizards tossed around here are better than most 'regular' non CO characters.

i doubt that being VoP wiz even drops your tiering much, if any.

[KellKheraptis]

the various VoP wizards tossed around here are better than most 'regular' non CO characters.

i doubt that being VoP wiz even drops your tiering much, if any.

Not at all when you think about it, since with the ACF, you don't even need a spellbook, and you now have access to a ready supply of poison.  Pick up Venomfire and you can rape things like the druids to in every form you take.  Or, be a real a-hole and give it to your buffed to the gills familiar.  Do so as a Dragonwrought Kobold and you can abuse the whole damn spell list.  Do so as a DWK polymorphed into a planetar and win at DnD.  Itemless   And if you have any doubts, you're closer to outer planar beings than most, so you can always divine what you'll need to prep, then AP in from tea and crumpets with whichever god you were conversing with to curbstomp whatever he/she/it told you was a threat.

[altpersona]

i will go as far as to say that in a core + BoED only game, it would be tough to make it work out.

you could do the archmage, spend your slots of AM stuff, and be happy w/ the hand full of spells you can have from mastery..

would make a nice npc... the beggar mage who pops off gate, timestop, summon monster and prestidigitation where ever he wants..

[Endless Twilight]

This forum is funny-I said I was satisfied with the answers I got halfway down the first page, and my inquiry was whether it would be a net gain or loss at all.

It's also a Planescape game, and the DM has specifically stated that mechanical optimization will be of zero help except in 10-20% of the game.

Thanks anyhow, and the chatter was pretty funny.

[Akalsaris]

Well, I think people enjoyed hashing out the possible ways to minimize the downsides of VoP for a wizard - it was an interesting topic IMO.  Good luck with the planescape game, cutter!