Author Topic: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice  (Read 24454 times)

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Smokey_the_bear

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Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« on: November 10, 2009, 12:13:25 PM »
A friend of mine is running a 15th lvl Pathfinder game and I've honestly never experienced any kind of play with their classes. I'm interested in a solid Sorcerer build that centers around the Aberrant bloodline but I've no idea where to start. Any ideas/suggestions to get me started?

Edit: I'm also thinking about a build that uses the silence spell. 3 cleric to gain access to the spell, cast it on an arrow, shoot said arrow at a caster allowing no save and effectively shutting him down until he takes the actions to take out the arrow and throw it at least 20ft away from him.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 01:01:15 PM by Smokey_the_bear »

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 05:09:30 PM »
Well, at 15th the demonic bloodline can summon 2 monsters with every summon monster, which gets to be insane pretty fast. 

As far as Aberrant goes, I'd abuse their 10ft touch spell reach (20ft with enlarge person, which is 1 of your bloodline spells, and 30ft reach with enlarge person and 17th level) and cast lots of touch spells like Bestow Curse, Vampiric Touch, and Planeshift (conveniently your bloodline spell at 15th level!). 

Check if you can polymorph into aberrant-ish versions of creatures, so you could be a dragon with 20ft+ reach or something - the reach a class-granted feature, so you might retain it, and all of your polymorph-style spells are auto-extended, plus in PF you can cast in the forms.  It's not the most broken fighting style, but it would probably be a lot of fun and very flexible.

Bonus Feats: I'd grab Improved Initiative and Combat Casting.

15th definitely seems to be a sweet spot level for aberrant sorcerers, since that's when SR also comes online. 

Other than that, just grab some staple high level spells and go to town :) 

(The silence build, btw, sounds like a bad idea to me)

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 06:54:10 PM »
Well, at 15th the demonic bloodline can summon 2 monsters with every summon monster, which gets to be insane pretty fast. 

As far as Aberrant goes, I'd abuse their 10ft touch spell reach (20ft with enlarge person, which is 1 of your bloodline spells, and 30ft reach with enlarge person and 17th level) and cast lots of touch spells like Bestow Curse, Vampiric Touch, and Planeshift (conveniently your bloodline spell at 15th level!). 

Check if you can polymorph into aberrant-ish versions of creatures, so you could be a dragon with 20ft+ reach or something - the reach a class-granted feature, so you might retain it, and all of your polymorph-style spells are auto-extended, plus in PF you can cast in the forms.  It's not the most broken fighting style, but it would probably be a lot of fun and very flexible.

Bonus Feats: I'd grab Improved Initiative and Combat Casting.

15th definitely seems to be a sweet spot level for aberrant sorcerers, since that's when SR also comes online. 

Other than that, just grab some staple high level spells and go to town :) 

(The silence build, btw, sounds like a bad idea to me)

I think I might go with the Abyssal bloodline because of the added summoning. Now, which monsters could I summon to make the best of this? After taking a look at the summon monster VII list, the Vrock seems like a solid option. I'd be able to summon two of them and each of those two have a chance of summoning another. If all 4 of them use their ability to release spores, thats 4d8 +4d4 for 10 rounds

and 4 Vrocks using Mirror Image at CL 12th can be pretty intimidating. I wouldn't want to try and wade through 32 possible Vrocks

kobo1d

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 07:03:14 PM »
Are 3.5 Complete X books allowed?

If so, I would go Abyssal Sorcerer 15/Malconvoker 5.

3 Demons for the price of one!

Check out this guide for all your demon summoning needs: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=289.0
 


Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2009, 07:06:27 PM »
Unfortunately, a summoned creature cannot use any of its innate summoning abilities.  But if you cast the spell twice, the 4 Vrocks can combine their Dance of Ruin for 20d6 and DC 20 =)

So it would probably go:
R1: Start summoning
R2: Finish first summon, 2 vrocks each unleash their spores and do a stunning screech, start second summon
R3: Finish second summon, first 2 vrocks use heroism on PCs, or attack or use telekinesis, second group unleashes their spores and do a stunning screech
R4-R6: Vrocks can do their Dance of Ruin, and at the end of it the first group can do another spore attack
R7: Are the bad guys dead yet?

I'm currently working on a guide to Summon Monster spells in pathfinder, but I've only gotten up to SM IV so far.  Sorry ^^;;

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 07:12:24 PM »
I think I might go with the Abyssal bloodline because of the added summoning. Now, which monsters could I summon to make the best of this? After taking a look at the summon monster VII list, the Vrock seems like a solid option. I'd be able to summon two of them and each of those two have a chance of summoning another. If all 4 of them use their ability to release spores, thats 4d8 +4d4 for 10 rounds

and 4 Vrocks using Mirror Image at CL 12th can be pretty intimidating. I wouldn't want to try and wade through 32 possible Vrocks
Screw Dance of Ruin. Vrocks have Telekinesis, Teleport, and Mirror Image, all at will. Weapons do normal damage when hurled with Telekinesis, and you can throw one per caster level. So carry around a bunch of greatswords, toss them down, and let your Vrocks skewer people with them.

I'm assuming they haven't been nerfed too badly in Pathfinder. I have not looked at the rules. This is the 3.5 Vrock I'm talking about. I don't think they can actually use Teleport while summoned, but then again, it isn't really necessary for carnage.

If you can use stuff from the Magic Item Compendium, grab a Chronocharm of the Uncarning Archmage so you can summon them 1x per day as a standard action instead of full round.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 07:14:31 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 08:36:13 PM »
What feats would you recommend to make the most of my summons? Not necessarily just those along the lines of augment summon, but other ones that give a not so obvious benefit.

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 08:41:53 PM »
Pathfinder-only?

Hmm...here's what I've noted in my guide so far, though it's slanted towards conjurers over sorcerers

TRAITS
[spoiler]
From the Traits Guide:
Reactionary (POP: Legal): +2 to initiative.  Useful from 1st to 20th.  Take it!!
Resilient (POP: Legal): +1 to Fortitude saves.  Best with the Academae Graduate feat.
Focused Mind: +2 to Concentration checks is very sweet.
Gifted Adept, Magical Lineage: +1 to CL for 1 spell, or -1 to metamagic costs for 1 spell. Both are  limited, so make sure the spell you choose is one that you use often. 
Natural-Born Leader: Eh, it's a bonus to summoned creatures, but a weak one.
Rich Parents: Start with 900 gold.  This is an incredible feat if you don't expect to play the character for long.

Faction traits:
Devil's Mark (Cheliax): gain +2 to social skills when dealing with evil outsiders.  Good for planar binding.
Master of Pentacles (Cheliax): 1/day, +2 to CL for determining the duration of any conjuration spell.  Very versatile, and useful for a long time. 
Tomb Raider (Osiran): I rate Perception highly, so the opportunity to get it as a class skill is  nice.
Eastern Mysteries (Qadira): Gain +2 to the DC of one spell/day.  Very useful.

Other traits:
Dropout (Curse of the Crimson Throne): +2 to Spellcraft and you dropped out of Hogwarts School for Witches and Wizards!
Religious (Curse of the Crimson Throne): +2 to Concentration checks[/spoiler]

FEATS
[spoiler]
Spell Focus (Conjuration): Almost certainly going to be your first or second feat, this opens up other useful feats, qualifies you for PrCs, and makes your spells better. 

Augment Summoning: For any serious summoner, this is a must-have feat.  I recommend getting it as soon as possible, since the bonus is static and most noticeable at the lower levels. 

Cosmopolitan (PF Campaign Setting, POP: Legal): Choose 2 wis, cha, and/or int-based skills, and make them permanently class skills for you.  How about Perception for surprise rounds, or Diplomacy for Planar Binding?  It's like taking two Skill Focus feats for the price of one!

Varisian Tattoo (Curse of the Crimson Throne, PF Campaign Setting, POP: Not Legal): gain +1 to CL with a school that you have Spell Focus in, and you can use a cantrip (Acid Splash) a few times per day.  A nifty boost.

Noble Scion (PF Campaign Setting, POP: Not Legal): You're a scion of a noble Chelish house.  Thrune  grants Infernal as a known language and at 9th level you gain an imp familiar as if you were a 1st level sorcerer.  For the cost of a feat, you gain the best Improved Familiar without worrying about alignment restrictions

Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration): This should be a priority for conjurers interested in crowd control, and is still good for summoners after they nab Augment Summoning and other critical feats.

Improved Initiative: As a conjurer, you need to control the battlefield fast.  This spell helps you do that.  Highly, highly recommended.

Combat Casting: With PF, it's much harder to cast defensively.  This is a decent pick if you're out of good choices later on or if your character frequently finds himself surrounded.

Spell Penetration, GSP: Decent choices, though many of your spells don't allow SR.  Mostly good as filler at the very high levels.

Improved Familiar: Another solid choice, since familiars are like having a second action in a round.  I recommend the imp, quasit, and air or earth elemental.

Skill Focus: If you're going for Loremaster, you'll need this.  I'd recommend Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Perception, or Knowledge (Arcana).

Toughness: The PF version is like 3.5's Improved Toughness, only a little better at the start.  It's a good filler feat.

Great Fortitude, Improved Great Fortitude: Good if you have Acadamae Graduate, and once you have the first feat you might as well take the second one.  Fortitude is an important save, and unlike your Will save it probably won't be very high anyhow.   

Leadership (POP: Not Legal): As always this is the best feat in the game if you're up for the book-keeping.  Even if your charisma is absolutely terrible, this will still be a strong feat.

Wand Dancer (PF Campaign Setting, POP: Not Legal): I don't actually recommend this feat too highly since the prerequisites are subpar (Dodge and Mobility), but this gives you Shot on the Run with a wand, which is kick-ass.[/spoiler]

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 08:52:35 PM »
as far as i know its Pathfinder only but i'll find out.


Edit: besides the Vrock, what other monsters on the summon monster VII list would you recommend?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 09:07:14 PM by Smokey_the_bear »

kobo1d

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 09:26:54 PM »
as far as i know its Pathfinder only but i'll find out.


Edit: besides the Vrock, what other monsters on the summon monster VII list would you recommend?

d3+1 Demons from SM VI. d3 +1 Succubi could Charm, Suggestion, or Dominate the whole enemy team.
d3+1 Shadow demons  have Shadow Conjuration and Evocation, THAT is versatility in a summon...

A lot of the Fiendish animals are good in combat.

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 09:30:03 PM »
as far as i know its Pathfinder only but i'll find out.


Edit: besides the Vrock, what other monsters on the summon monster VII list would you recommend?

d3+1 Demons from SM VI. d3 +1 Succubi could Charm, Suggestion, or Dominate the whole enemy team.
d3+1 Shadow demons  have Shadow Conjuration and Evocation, THAT is versatility in a summon...

A lot of the Fiendish animals are good in combat.
Versatility is definitely what I'm looking for in this character. Also, all non pathfinder feats are subject to DM approval on an individual (not by book) basis.  :rollseyes

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 11:10:30 PM »
Check out the Mastering the Malconvoker handbook in the handbooks section of this forum - it mentions several strong feats and class features for 3.5.  The summon monster line critiques are solid, but all of the stats and most of the monsters on each list have changed since 3.5, so be careful there.

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 12:37:30 AM »
I think I might go with the Abyssal bloodline because of the added summoning. Now, which monsters could I summon to make the best of this? After taking a look at the summon monster VII list, the Vrock seems like a solid option. I'd be able to summon two of them and each of those two have a chance of summoning another. If all 4 of them use their ability to release spores, thats 4d8 +4d4 for 10 rounds

and 4 Vrocks using Mirror Image at CL 12th can be pretty intimidating. I wouldn't want to try and wade through 32 possible Vrocks
Screw Dance of Ruin. Vrocks have Telekinesis, Teleport, and Mirror Image, all at will. Weapons do normal damage when hurled with Telekinesis, and you can throw one per caster level. So carry around a bunch of greatswords, toss them down, and let your Vrocks skewer people with them.

Warning: may be a good idea to clear this with your DM before trying it.

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 03:28:31 AM »
I think I might go with the Abyssal bloodline because of the added summoning. Now, which monsters could I summon to make the best of this? After taking a look at the summon monster VII list, the Vrock seems like a solid option. I'd be able to summon two of them and each of those two have a chance of summoning another. If all 4 of them use their ability to release spores, thats 4d8 +4d4 for 10 rounds

and 4 Vrocks using Mirror Image at CL 12th can be pretty intimidating. I wouldn't want to try and wade through 32 possible Vrocks
Screw Dance of Ruin. Vrocks have Telekinesis, Teleport, and Mirror Image, all at will. Weapons do normal damage when hurled with Telekinesis, and you can throw one per caster level. So carry around a bunch of greatswords, toss them down, and let your Vrocks skewer people with them.

Warning: may be a good idea to clear this with your DM before trying it.

It also means hauling around about 48 greatswords (or better yet: fullblades!  mm...fullblades...) if you want 4 summons to use them :P  But it might be worth it just once to make 48 attacks a round for a possible 96d8 =P

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 01:45:59 PM »
Well, he's letting me take the PHII variant sorc so I don't have to wait a full round to cast metamagic so I'm thinking about metamagic school focus (conjuration) and then easy metamagic (quicken). However, that would drop me down to only being able to quicken SM V  :(

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 02:59:03 PM »
It also means hauling around about 48 greatswords (or better yet: fullblades!  mm...fullblades...) if you want 4 summons to use them :P  But it might be worth it just once to make 48 attacks a round for a possible 96d8 =P
Go go Gadget Enveloping Pit! It's even a swift action to open it!  :P I think the best weapon for this winds up being the siangham, because they do 1d6 and you can scale them up to colossal and still be under the weight limit. :D

But hell, even using it on normal sized arrows is pretty nasty, and it sure isn't a problem to cast a bunch of those around. You can even hit them all at once with a single casting of Greater Magic Weapon for more fun! That's 12d4+12*X per round, per Vrock (where X = the bonus from GMW).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Akalsaris

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 03:04:03 PM »
Hey, quickened SM V along with a non-quickened SM VII is still pretty awesome :)

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 04:58:21 PM »
Is enveloping pit in MIC?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 05:07:05 PM »
Is enveloping pit in MIC?
Yeah. It's a kobold relic that is a 50 foot deep portable hole for only 3600 gp. You need to be LE, NE, or LN to use its basic function (a 50 ft deep portable hole). It has other functions if you meet more difficult requirements, but I don't really care much for them. The action listed to use it is Swift, so presumably that's all it takes to open and close it, which is really nice. We've got a small, portable "tower" built inside one in Alastar's "Way of the Wizard" game on here. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Pathfinder Sorcerer advice
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 06:07:07 PM »
It also means hauling around about 48 greatswords (or better yet: fullblades!  mm...fullblades...) if you want 4 summons to use them :P  But it might be worth it just once to make 48 attacks a round for a possible 96d8 =P
I think the best weapon for this winds up being the siangham, because they do 1d6 and you can scale them up to colossal and still be under the weight limit. :D

When increasing the size do I just keep doubling the weight? 1lb -> 2lbs ->4lbs ->8lbs ->16lbs?

EDIT: Would It be a good idea to carry about a couple of quivers of arrows that have various enchantments on them for things that have specific energy vulnerabilities and the like?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 06:26:35 PM by Smokey_the_bear »