Author Topic: Fighter: Epic Feats early?  (Read 6830 times)

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minchazo

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Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« on: November 09, 2009, 03:38:58 PM »
I know that people have put a lot of effort into revamping the fighter, but...

Could you do something as simple as giving a Fighter access to Epic feats for his fighter bonus feats, starting at 12th level fighter?

I presume it's been rehashed before, but I couldn't find a thread on it.

altpersona

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 03:41:59 PM »
i dont think the combined forces of batman and superman can save fighter.
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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 03:46:02 PM »
epic feats are divided into two categories:

Totally awful (armor skin, improved darkvision, and blinding speed, for example)
and
Totally broken.

The prereqs for everything the second half are extremely high, and can't be met until epic anyway).  Some of the prereqs in the first half are high as well.

There are a couple that would be decent (dire charge gives pounce, for example), but overall it wouldn't work.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 03:56:37 PM »
I did exactly this with some house rules a few years ago, as well as added a few other things to the fighter to fix it. (More feats, changing existing feats to scale with levels, a couple of class features, etc). I think I still have a copy of the whole thing, if you're interested in it.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 06:07:38 PM »

minchazo

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 06:26:25 PM »
So giving a monk-like unqualified for Epic feat, but just from the Epic Fighter list,
only has one possible TO-borkt type combo.

When do Tier 1s get save-or-dies?
vs.
Devastating Critical [Epic]
Prerequisites

Str 25, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (chosen weapon), Overwhelming Critical (chosen weapon), Power Attack, Weapon Focus (chosen weapon).
Benefit

Yeah what, is this 1 8th level spell multiple uses ?!


Not quite the Monk's unqualified for feats thing. The fighter would have to qualify in every way *except* be character lvl 21. So Devastating Critical would require 5 normal feats and 2 Epic feats. He'd have to get Overwhelming critical at lvl 12, then Devastating Critical at lvl 14.

An 8th lvl spell? Please! :rollseyes
It's a gimped Vorpal Sword at character level 14 that allows a save. He has to *crit* to trigger the save. Doesn't sound like an 8th lvl spell to me, more like a 5th lvl Slay Living, with a 20% chance of triggering a fort save *if* he hits (assuming a 17-20x2 weapon). Other builds/classes should be doing 50+ damage at this point, triggering saves vs. massive damage for each attack anyways. He's avoided *any* PrC or multiclassing, give the poor sod his Vorpal weapon!
« Last Edit: November 09, 2009, 06:29:34 PM by minchazo »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 07:38:09 PM »
Finally found a copy of my "fighter fix" that did this. Warning long post is long.



[spoiler]The Fighter Class
(A compilation of a few different variants I saw on the WotC boards. Sorry, I don't remember who posted them originally. It's been too long, and I lost the original files.)

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills:
The fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The fighter is proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields.

Lvl BaB Fort/Ref/Will Special
1 +1 +2/+0/+0 Bonus Feat, Combat Experience
2 +2 +3/+0/+0 Bonus Feat
3 +3 +3/+1/+1
4 +4 +4/+1/+1 Bonus Feat
5 +5 +4/+1/+1
6 +6 +5/+2/+2 Bonus Feat
7 +7 +5/+2/+2
8 +8 +6/+2/+2 Bonus Feat
9 +9 +6/+3/+3 Master of Weapons
10 +10 +7/+3/+3 Bonus Feat
11 +11 +7/+3/+3
12 +12 +8/+4/+4 Legendary Feat
13 +13 +8/+4/+4
14 +14 +9/+4/+4 Legendary Feat
15 +15 +9/+5/+5
16 +16 +10/+5/+5 Legendary Feat
17 +17 +10/+5/+5
18 +18 +11/+6/+6 Legendary Feat
19 +19 +11/+6/+6
20 +20 +12/+6/+6 Legendary Feat

Class features:

Bonus Feats:
identical from the core class feature, same list. Can also take Combat feats from Races of War.

Legendary Feats: At 12th level and beyond, the fighter reaches a new plateau in his martial training. The fighter gains a legendary feat at 12th level, and every two levels thereafter (14th, 16th, 18th, etc.). The legendary feats must be drawn from the following list: Combat Archery, Dire Charge, Distant Shot, Epic Endurance, Epic Fortitude, Epic Prowess, Epic Reflexes, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Epic Will, Great Constitution, Great Dexterity, Great Strength, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Manyshot, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Instant Reload, Overwhelming Critical (Devastating Critical), Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, Storm of Throws, Swarm of Arrows, Two Weapon Rend, Uncanny Accuracy. (All Legendary Feats are taken from the Epic Level Handbook).

For all legendary feats, all prerequisites must be met with the exception of any numerical requirement. This includes ability score requirements, base attack bonus requirements, and skill point requirements. The fighter is able to wave such prerequisites thanks to his incredible dedication to combat.

Note: If desired, the Fighter may choose to pick a feat from the bonus feat list, rather then the legendary feat list.

Combat Experience: the fighter is the paradigm of combat prowess and experience. He knows more tricks and moves than any other warrior, and he can surprise his opponents with his fighting skills.
Once a day at lvl 1, and an additional time every three lvls thereafter (4th, 7th, 10th and so on), the fighter may declare that he's using his combat experience to obtain a bonus to a single attack or damage roll. This bonus is equal to 1 for every 4 class (fighter) lvls (+1 at 1st-4th, +2 at 5-8th, +3 at 9-12th, and so on).
This is an (Ex) ability, activated as a free action.

Master of Weapons: at 9th lvl, the fighter becomes even more experienced in the employement and crafting of weapons.
First, he can learn the magical bonus to hit and damage of any weapon he is proficient with just by wielding it.
Second, he receives a competence bonus to all Craft (Weaponsmith) checks to craft weapons and armors equal to half of his class lvl (round down).
Finallly, he becomes capable of crafting weapons of such quality that they rival that of magic weapons.
When the fighter creates a masterwork weapon, the final bonus the weapon receives is equal to +1 for each full 4 class lvls the fighter possesses. This bonus is added to hit and damage rolls, just like a magical bonus. (this bonus theorically doesn't deny DR, but this may change in 3.5). Thus, a lvl 16 fighter could create a sword with a masterwork bonus +4 to hit and damage rolls. This bonus obviously doesn't stack with any magical bonus later added to the weapon.
The cost to create such weapon is half the price of a magic weapon with the equivalent bonus. The time necessary is the same as for a normal masterwork weapon.


Combat Experience Feats:

All these feats are to be considered bonus feats for the fighter. Most of them are not fighter - exclusive, but require at least a few fighter lvls to be gained.

Warrior of Destiny:

Requisites: can be acquired only at character level 1 as a fighter bonus feat.
Description: you have an unmatched innate talent for fighting and great survival instinct.
Benefits: you gain an additional fighter bonus feat at lvl 10, and every 10 lvls thereafter.
Your amount of daily uses of Combat experience is increased by 1 every 10 lvls (2 at 10th, 3 at 20th, and so on).
Also, if you take any of the save enhancement feats (Lighting Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Iron Will), that save becomes a "good" save for your fighter levels.
Special: only class (fighter) lvls are used to calculate the bonuses of this feat.


In the Nick of Time:

Requisites: Combat Experience class feature, Iron Will or Lighting Reflexes or Great Fortitude.
Description: you can escape normally unavoidable effects.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to receive a saving throw against a spell or effect that normally doesn't allow one. Your DM adjudicates what kind of save you may take, and the effects of a successfull save. You can only benefit from this "bonus" save if you possess the corresponding feat for the save your DM has adjudicated.
Ex: a fighter is the target of a Forcecage spell. He decides to use one of his daily Combat Experience uses to obtain a sving throw. The DM decides that he can make a Reflex saving throw to roll out of the way. If he's successfull, he evades the spell (the cage is there, but he moves away before it is formed). Now the fighter can make his save, calculated normally, but only if he possesses the Lighting Reflexes feat.

Last Stance:
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature, In the Nick of Time.
Description: your experience lets you escape otherwise fatal effects.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to reroll a failed saving throw.
Special: you cannot reroll a single failed save more than once.

Will of the Warrior:

Requisites: Wis 13+, Combat Experience class feature, Master of Weapons class feature.
Description: you can shrug off non-lethal damage with the force of your will.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to receive DR value equal to (BAB)/-. This effect lasts 3 rounds + 1/5 of your class (fighter) lvl.

Focused Strike:

Requisites: Combat Experience class feature, Master of Weapons class feature, Int 13+.
Description: you can strike with unerring accuracy.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to achieve one of the following effects:
- you can increase the critical threat range of your weapon for a single attack by 1. You cannot use this ability more than once per attack.
- you can reduce the miss chance of all of your attacks until the end of turn against opponents benefitting from 9/10 or less concealment for every daily use of Combat Experience you expend.
This includes blur, displacement and self concealment effects, but not ethereal and incorporeal creatures.

Destructive Blow:
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature, Str 15+.
Description: you can unleash devastating attacks.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to add twice you Str modifier (instead of 1.5) to damage if you wield a two-handed weapon until the end of turn.
You can similarly add 1,5 times you Str modifier to damage with weapons you wield with one hand instead of your base Str modifier.

Fast as Lighting (weapon to be chosen):
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature, Weapon Focus (weapon to be chosen).
Description: you can attack with blinding speed.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to perform a single additional attack at your highest attack bonus, when you wield a specific kind of weapon - longsword, greataxe, and so on). However, all your attacks receive a -2 penality to hit until the end of turn.
Special: this feature is identical to the flurry of blows feature. As the flurry, it can only be used when the fighter takes a full attack action.

Great Experience:
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature.
Description: your experience increases.
Benefits: The number of daily uses of Combat Experience the character possesses is increased by 3. This feat may be taken multiple times, but the total daily uses may never exceed his fighter class lvl.

Expert Parry:
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature.
Description: you are well trained in the art of parrying blows.
Benefits: you can consume one of your daily uses of Combat Experience to perform a parry as a free action. When an incoming attack is announced (before the attack is rolled), you can declare that you will parry it. Against that attack, you AC becomes 1d20+(your normal AC). (Edit: I think I will make this an opposed attack roll using the fighter's full attack bonus. -Todd)
Special: you can use Combat Experience to increase the result of this roll, if you use another daily use.

Foil Action:
Requisites: Combat Experience class feature.
Description: You can interrupt the actions of others.
Benefits: By consuming one of your daily Combat Experience uses, you may attempt to monkeywrench any action an opponent is taking. The Fighter may throw sand into a beholder's eye, bat aside a key spell component, or strike a weapon hand with a thrown object, but the result is the same: the opponent's action is wasted, and any spell slots, limited ability uses, or the like used to power it are expended. A Fighter must be within 30 feet of his opponent to use this ability, and must hit with a touch attack or ranged touch attack. Using Foil Action is an Immediate action. A Fighter may not wait until an action is partially completed before deciding to attempt to foil the action, but must instead attempt to foil an action as it is declared. Note that this means that a Fighter may not foil a Full Attack (because it is not declared until after it has already begun), nor may he foil a move or charge action that began out of range.

At 17th level, Foil Action may be used at up to 60 feet.

Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes can be taken as fighter bonus feats. If taken in this way, instead of their normal benefits they change the target save into a "good" save for the character's fighter class levels.[/spoiler]

I also added a crapton of custom feats, and made some of the normal feats scale with levels (some only figher levels). This was all done forever ago, far far before ToB. Nowadays I'd just use the Warblade, probably. :P
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 01:47:01 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

minchazo

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2009, 08:43:03 PM »
Wow! I assumed somebody had already thought of an update, but I didn't think that I'd see an example like that! Thanks, PhaedrusXY!

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2009, 11:46:56 PM »
No problem. I could e-mail you the homebrewed feats if you want. I had them posted publicly, but some of them were copyrighted and I actually had someone e-mail me a "cease and desist" letter about them...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 12:36:27 AM »
i dont think the combined forces of batman and superman can save fighter.

I dunno...if my batman arcane swordsage turned the fighter into a solar he'd at least FEEL a lot more useful :P
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lans

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 01:04:03 AM »

For all legendary feats, all prerequisites must be met with the exception of any numerical requirement. This includes ability score requirements, base attack bonus requirements, and skill point requirements. The fighter is able to wave such prerequisites thanks to his incredible dedication to combat.

Note: If desired, the Fighter may choose to pick a feat from the bonus feat list, rather then the legendary feat list.

So at 12th level a fighter can take Martial Study:Feral Death Blow? Sounds decent.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 01:10:28 AM »

For all legendary feats, all prerequisites must be met with the exception of any numerical requirement. This includes ability score requirements, base attack bonus requirements, and skill point requirements. The fighter is able to wave such prerequisites thanks to his incredible dedication to combat.

Note: If desired, the Fighter may choose to pick a feat from the bonus feat list, rather then the legendary feat list.

So at 12th level a fighter can take Martial Study:Feral Death Blow? Sounds decent.
Like I said, this was written long before ToB came out. I don't know if it would break when combined with it or not. I'm not even that familiar with ToB.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

lans

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2009, 01:24:12 AM »

For all legendary feats, all prerequisites must be met with the exception of any numerical requirement. This includes ability score requirements, base attack bonus requirements, and skill point requirements. The fighter is able to wave such prerequisites thanks to his incredible dedication to combat.

Note: If desired, the Fighter may choose to pick a feat from the bonus feat list, rather then the legendary feat list.

So at 12th level a fighter can take Martial Study:Feral Death Blow? Sounds decent.
Like I said, this was written long before ToB came out. I don't know if it would break when combined with it or not. I'm not even that familiar with ToB.
It would give the fighter a once per encounter death attack at DC 19+ Strength Mod. If the Save is successul they  take 20d6 damage extra.
Or a standard action to hit and cast heal.
A round action that is two full attacks.
Normal hit+100hp
Or a couple of other things.

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 01:30:24 AM »
It would give the fighter a once per encounter death attack at DC 19+ Strength Mod. If the Save is successul they  take 20d6 damage extra.
Or a standard action to hit and cast heal.
A round action that is two full attacks.
Normal hit+100hp
Or a couple of other things.
I could live with that, I think. :D Is the first one a [Death] effect? Or blocked by crit immunity?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

lans

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 01:47:31 AM »
It would give the fighter a once per encounter death attack at DC 19+ Strength Mod. If the Save is successul they  take 20d6 damage extra.
Or a standard action to hit and cast heal.
A round action that is two full attacks.
Normal hit+100hp
Or a couple of other things.
I could live with that, I think. :D Is the first one a [Death] effect? Or blocked by crit immunity?
Crit immunity blocks it
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DavidWL

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 03:48:10 AM »
I think a key understanding is that right now, fighters don't get to play rocket tag, and if you want to re-balance the fighter, you have to give them some rockets.

"In the Nick of Time" is a cool and great class feature, partly because it helps them play rocket tag (or defend against rockets).

Likewise, the mageslayer line of feats is great, because that too helps them play rocket tag.

Ask the question, how might a mage attack a fighter, and completely dominate.  Answer:  No save spells (forcecage, reverse gravity, etc.).  Solution - "In the Nick of Time"

Ask the question, how might a mage defend himself.  Answer:  Shapechange, Flight, Invisibility, Mirror Image, etc.  Partial solution - "pierce magical protection"

Give the fighter ways to play rocket tag, give the fighter some toys that are "cool", and I suspect we are on the way towards an improved fighter.

A partial solution is, I think, to greatly broaden the feat list a fighter can take with bonus feats.  I'd say allow any feat which fits a theme.  (Ninja, Commander, Pirate, etc.).  This would make those bonus fighter feats count more.

A second part of the solution is to have some cool feats that are really worth taking (like "Pierce Magical Concealment" or "In the Nick of Time").  While other things are cool, they tend to be one trick ponies and require a lot of investment (Combat Brute/Shock Trooper, chain gun tripper, lancer, etc.).  So instead give the fighter a lot of tricks, and make them require less investment.

Honestly, I think 1/2 the solution to the fighter was ToB.

Best,
David
« Last Edit: November 10, 2009, 07:07:10 AM by DavidWL »
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
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DavidWL

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 04:17:11 AM »
Some inspiration for feats (cool related - not really about playing with rockets):

Feat:  "Tough as Nails"

Archetype - A die-hard soldier who can march through bogs, up hills, day and night, for weeks at a time, ignoring poor or no food, little water, in the harshest of conditions.

Effect  The character can go three times as long before suffering adverse circumstances related to endurance, fatiguing effects, etc. which are non magical.  If subjected to a fatigue related magical effect, the character can postpone the effect for 1 round.

Example: Most characters can go without food for 1 day + CON score, and then need to save vs. damage every hour.  A "Tough as Nails" fighter can go for 3 days + 3*CON score, and then needs to save vs. damage every 3 hours.

Feat:  "A leader of men" I and II

Achetype:  A commander whose led his men through a hundred battles, trained with them, bled with them, lost friends with them.  Brilliant, determined, completely trustworthy.

A Leader of Men I:  If leading an appropriate group:
- at least 5 people
- none of whom have a level higher than the leader - 2
- At least 10% of trained/worked with the leader for at least 6 months
- At least 80% have trained/worked with the leader for at least 1 month
Then
- their attitude is automatically helpful
- They all get +10 to save vs. intimidation and fear effects
- They all gain a bonus teamwork related feat (shieldmate, Formation Expert, Wolfpack, etc.)

Feat:  "One strike, one kill"

Archetype:  Two samurai circle, with the slightest of twitches.  Time passes.  You blink, and one is dead.

Effect:  As a full attack action, you make a set of iterative attack rolls - you total all that hit, and roll damage normally.  You add up all the damage and apply it at once.  These multiple attack rolls are considered one "strike" ... magic which would effect only 1 strike (Truestrike) would apply to all attacks.  DR is only applied once.  Because this is based on making the one "deadly" strike, this is about attack vital points, and this feat does not apply to creatures immune to critical hits.
Benefits:
- DR applies only once
- some spells can apply to each attack roll instead of only 1
- If there are any negative effects from attacking (example:  Retributive strike, a rust monster, etc.), this is suffered only once
- Etc.

Summary

If you have a cool idea, and you then make it a feat, that can really work.  If the idea is too powerful for one feat, make it a chain of 2 or 3.  But start with a cool idea, then make it reality.  This adds, I think, flavor.

Also, while I didn't give examples, in playing rocket tag, if you come up with an image for how the fighter can beat the mage, and you make that a feat, I think that's a good beginning.  I imagine Anime, but we can all have our own visions.

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
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Brainpiercing

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 06:56:26 AM »
Hmm, I had the idea of just giving EVERY character (including, of course, all NPCs, monsters, etc.) who can neither cast spells, nor use SLAs (nor, I guess, Su abilities) the Mage Slayer feats as bonus feats at a certain level, for example:

4: Mage Slayer
9: Pierce Magical Concealment
13: Pierce Magical Protection

If you don't give them to people, at least make them Fighter bonus feats.

(By the way, Pierce Magical Protection is really quite nasty, now that I read it again, due to the Auto-dispelling clause. That could easily strip a caster of most of his buffs in just one attack. (Polymorph, Shapechange, Alter Self, Mage Armour, Luminous Armour, Shield, Protection from X.... and a ton of others are all dispelled instantly.) You still have to win initiative, and it eats your action, AND you're not protected from the retort (so you're still not playing Rocket tag), but at least gishes and DMM clerics will really hate you.)

Another idea, going with the Archetype idea for feats, and just to make Fighters a bit more useful, would be to pick an archetype, and simply giving them 1 skill point per level for a set of archetypal skills (maybe two + 1 knowledge), at no cost. Of course max-ranks still applies, but the skills would be class skills.
For instance:
The Mounted Fighter archetype gets 1 rank of Ride and Handle Animal.
The Unit Commander gets one rank of Diplomacy and Intimidate
The Samurai gets one rank of Diplo and Sense Motive
etc.

Alternatively, just give fighters 4 skill points. Most Initiators get four or more skill points.

Also, give all classes that don't cast spells, use SLAs or Su abilities 1 aditional stat point every four class levels.

minchazo

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 09:36:11 AM »
I think a key understanding is that right now, fighters don't get to play rocket tag, and if you want to re-balance the fighter, you have to give them some rockets.

A partial solution is, I think, to greatly broaden the feat list a fighter can take with bonus feats.  I'd say allow any feat which fits a theme.  (Ninja, Commander, Pirate, etc.).  This would make those bonus fighter feats count more.

A second part of the solution is to have some cool feats that are really worth taking (like "Pierce Magical Concealment" or "In the Nick of Time").  While other things are cool, they tend to be one trick ponies and require a lot of investment (Combat Brute/Shock Trooper, chain gun tripper, lancer, etc.).  So instead give the fighter a lot of tricks, and make them require less investment.

I agree with you on the goal (rocket tag), but I respectfully disagree on the method. I don't think that the best method is to simply "increase the feats." The fighter needs to get feats that are better than anyone else's feat options at high levels or it will always be just a dip for extra feats.

The only way you will convince someone to get high levels of fighter is to give them something spectacular that requires 20 levels of fighter (example):

Feat: Can't Touch This
Requirement: 20 levels in Fighter
Description: You can ignore hostile magic.
Benefit: You gain a golem's immunity to magic. With a standard action, you can remove this ability for concentration+ 1 round.

Note that I'm not actually trying to create/recommend this feat. I'm simply saying that a fighter has to have something comparable to 9th level casting through fighter specific feats.

Brainpiercing

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Re: Fighter: Epic Feats early?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 10:17:04 AM »
Hmm....

The only way you'll ever get ME to get more than two levels of fighter is by removing the empty levels. But a feat every level seems a bit much. So what could go in between?