Author Topic: Alteranate spell uses.  (Read 4213 times)

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Operation Shoestring

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Alteranate spell uses.
« on: November 05, 2009, 04:39:30 PM »
Spells are usually made with one purpose in mind.  being Co, we naturally find other uses for them.

Please share the alternate uses you came up with for spells.


1) Buzzing Bee
Quote
The bee has a fly speed of 180 feet
(perfect). It remains near the subject
in spite of darkness, invisibility, polymorph,
cover, concealment, or any
other attempt at disguising or hiding.
, but it can
be dispelled.
Material Component: A dab of honey.

Remember that annoying rogue with darkstalker?  Tag him with this, and he wont be able to hide his location (he can still hide, but you can just track where the Bee is).

2) Spell Theft

- a fifth level spell that allows you to steal a foe's buff's by making dispel checks (max +15) bonus.  Just an inferior Reaving Dispel, right?

Nope.  Reaving dispel requires spellcraft checks to tell what your opponent has active on him.  Spell theft automatically tells you what spells you foe has.

A 5th level spell to check what buffs your foe has up is pretty steep, but can be useful in some cases.

And hey, you may get lucky on those dispel checks.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 04:48:52 PM »
Wow... they really weren't thinking when writing Buzzing Bee, were they? I'll happily add that to my Cleric/Shadowcraft Mage's repertoire.  :D



Here is a contribution that isn't so much using something for a different purpose, as using it with something else that it synergizes well with.

The spell No Light in the Book of Vile Darkness is a cantrip that creates an area of magical darkness that only creatures with Darkvision can see through. By itself, this wouldn't be all that great, as most "monsters" in D&D, and many PC races, have darkvision. However if you pair it with the Ring of Darkhidden, it becomes phenomenal. The Ring of Darkhidden continuously makes you invisible to darkvision. So combined, this is like Greater Invisibility at the cost of a cantrip and a 2000 gp magic item.

Now No Light is from a 3.0 book, so some DMs might update it to work like 3.5 Darkness (which is basically crap). If so, this isn't as good.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 06:40:09 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 04:50:52 PM »
How do you target the rogue the first time?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 04:53:50 PM »
How do you target the rogue the first time?
A readied action should work. Of course, you could just hit him with Glitterdust instead, and maybe blind him as well as giving him a -40 to hide.

Edit:

Time Hop (psionic power): What you're expected to do is hit an enemy with this, to take them out of a fight for a few rounds. However, another great use is to hit yourself with it. You can use this to "hide", to escape certain death (big giant boulder rolling towards you? just "dissappear" for 6 seconds), etc.

It also allows you to target objects, which can be insanely powerful or just really good, depending on how much your DM lets you get away with. At the very least, you can remove the lock off of a trunk, an annoying door that is in your way, etc. At its worst, you could remove a pillar holding up a building, and similarly destructive things.

Somewhat related is Anticipate Teleport. If you have Abrupt Jaunt or some other quick way of teleportation (Anklet of Translocation, etc), you can use this to make yourself vanish for a round, similar to the first Time Hop suggestion above. It's also a great buff to have up if you fight enemies that teleport anyway, so this is just a bonus.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 05:04:11 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 04:56:51 PM »
Bears: Good question.  I'm sure there are a number of ways, though i hadn't really been considering it.  If you do manage to tag him with it, he just got badly nerfed. And even if you can't hit a darkstalker with it, you can definitely make rings of invisibility rather less usefull.

I'm sure there are uses for a spell that "tags" a foe, and prevents him from using invisibility against you.  Especially since it has a chance to impede casting.

Now i just need to find a way to make stunning ray do damage (without cold casting, because it's banninated so often), and i'll be happy.


Negative Zero

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 05:50:36 AM »
This is somewhat debatable, but it's a trick I figured out that I'm fairly proud of. Get Greater Anticipate Teleportation running, and cast Maze on someone. It plane shifts them to an extradimensional maze, and when they solve it, they're plane shifted back, into the Anticipate Teleportation area, meaning they don't get to arrive for a few more rounds. It takes some high-level spells, sure, but it's a great way to get someone out of the fight for a while with no save.

A lower-level option is Anticipate Teleportation and Dimension Hop or Baleful Transposition. But it's far less useful at that point, delaying them only one round and offering a save.

Solo

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2009, 05:56:42 AM »
Bestow Curse can be used as an impromptu. Curse yourself to look like an ugly person, or change genders.

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Emy

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2009, 06:01:47 AM »
Bestow Curse can be used as an impromptu. Curse yourself to look like an ugly person, or change genders.

According to the BoVD it can increase your age category, too. So if you happen to be a dragon or know one that needs a temporary power boost... Cursebuff it up to Wyrm, then when you're done wrecking stuff, remove the curse.

JaronK

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2009, 06:13:56 AM »
I don't see how the bee helps.  If you can see the Rogue to target him with a spell in the first place you could take him out anyway (Glitterdust would be obvious).  If you can't the bee is worthless.

JaronK

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2009, 03:33:53 PM »
I don't see how the bee helps.  If you can see the Rogue to target him with a spell in the first place you could take him out anyway (Glitterdust would be obvious).  If you can't the bee is worthless.

JaronK
Well, the bee has no save. But yeah, after thinking about it after my first post, I realized it isn't actually as awesome as I first thought. ;)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Brainpiercing

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 09:53:09 AM »
I don't see how the bee helps.  If you can see the Rogue to target him with a spell in the first place you could take him out anyway (Glitterdust would be obvious).  If you can't the bee is worthless.

JaronK
Well, the bee has no save. But yeah, after thinking about it after my first post, I realized it isn't actually as awesome as I first thought. ;)
There are uses, but only really when your DM likes his BBEGs to make a grand entry before doing their stuff (at lower levels, I guess). So basically, while the BBEG makes his speech or does whatever, you tag him, then when he goes invisible when the fight starts you know right away where to drop that Glitterdust.
If you can chain stuff for cheap this might also be a good first-round spell against a group of sneaky bad-guys, at least if they only start hiding after the fight starts. Which, admittedly... is a wee bit situational, but... I still did get this even for my epic necromancer :). Who knows...

Bauglir

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 01:17:44 PM »
I'm sure there's a way to make a build out of this...
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 02:11:31 PM »
I'm sure there's a way to make a build out of this...
http://drmcninja.com/page.php?pageNum=24&issue=9

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Holy fappin' crap. That is too hilarious for words.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 01:06:17 PM »
Cast Silence on the bee. Hope that spellcaster has Silent Spell.

Operation Shoestring

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 11:46:24 PM »
Cast Silence on the bee. Hope that spellcaster has Silent Spell.

arguably, that gets rid of the buzzing and the concentration check, but eh, silence is probably better.

The question is whether the bee is a valid target for silence.

Smokey_the_bear

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 02:09:14 PM »
Cast Silence on the bee. Hope that spellcaster has Silent Spell.

arguably, that gets rid of the buzzing and the concentration check, but eh, silence is probably better.

The question is whether the bee is a valid target for silence.
The bee can't be attacked which means it can't be the specific target of a spell

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 02:16:17 PM »
Shroud of undeath - intended for living to disguise as undead, but also gives 1-time turning immunity
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Lycanthromancer

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 02:20:29 AM »
I'm sure Lesser Planar Binding wasn't meant to grant infinite free Wishes. Or Astral Projection at level 11. Or armies of thousands of solars and efreet and great wyrm gold dragons by that level, either.

Polymorph wasn't meant to grant access to AP at level 7. Or 90% of the other things it's capable of granting. Like spellcasting from other classes.

Astral Projection wasn't meant for permanent immunity to death while adventuring on the Material Plane.

Alter Self wasn't supposed to the best low-level buff spell in the game. It can grant half a dozen natural attacks, a whole bunch of natural armor, swim speeds, burrow speeds, improved overland speeds, and flight for 10 minutes per level (Invisibility, a level higher, is only 1 minute per level).

Mount wasn't meant to be used to spring traps.

Silent Image wasn't meant as a 1st level Better-Than-Invisibility spell.

Locate City wasn't meant to blow a miles-wide crater in the ground. Nor was it meant to turn hundreds of thousands of people into a wightocalypse.

Explosive Runes wasn't meant to be able to blow up the moon and half the world, either. Nor was it meant to deal thousands of d6's of damage to a single creature, no save.

Shrink Item wasn't meant to be used to deal hundreds of thousands of points of damage with an orbital bombardment. Nor was it meant to be used in conjunction with Fabricate to Craft 4000x as much material per round. Nor was it meant to grant virtual immunity from Antimagic Fields.

Genesis wasn't meant to grant access to planes made totally out of platinum. Or planes with the flowing time (fast) trait. Or funky-gravity setups that lead to infinite energy machines.

Forcecage wasn't supposed to be teamed up with Dimensional Anchor, Cloudkill, and/or Acid Fog for certain death.

Reverse Gravity wasn't supposed to be teamed up with Prismatic Sphere for near-certain death.

Solid Fog wasn't...actually, there's no excuse for Solid Fog.

Nor Gate.

Nor Shapechange.

Summon Nature's Ally wasn't supposed to be a better Cure spell than a Cure spell.

Fireball wasn't supposed to be near-useless.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 02:22:24 AM by Lycanthromancer »
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DavidWL

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2009, 05:11:26 AM »
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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Brainpiercing

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Re: Alteranate spell uses.
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2009, 05:48:00 AM »
I'm sure Lesser Planar Binding wasn't meant to grant infinite free Wishes. Or Astral Projection at level 11. Or armies of thousands of solars and efreet and great wyrm gold dragons by that level, either.
I'm really not sure about this. Maybe it WAS supposed to give all that, because even after years and years where they could have revised it, they never did.
Quote
Polymorph wasn't meant to grant access to AP at level 7. Or 90% of the other things it's capable of granting. Like spellcasting from other classes.
Well, that one's a mess, for sure, but I still like it, though.
Quote
Astral Projection wasn't meant for permanent immunity to death while adventuring on the Material Plane.
I think it WAS meant for that, except they THOUGHT people would not want to leave their catatonic bodies lying around all the time.
Quote
Alter Self wasn't supposed to the best low-level buff spell in the game. It can grant half a dozen natural attacks, a whole bunch of natural armor, swim speeds, burrow speeds, improved overland speeds, and flight for 10 minutes per level (Invisibility, a level higher, is only 1 minute per level).
You know, I would tend to agree, but.... it's still in the frickin' game. It should just be used more by NPCs and it would totally lose it's overpoweredness.
Quote
Mount wasn't meant to be used to spring traps.
Nor was SX1 :) Or maybe actually it was. Who knows what was meant?
Quote
Silent Image wasn't meant as a 1st level Better-Than-Invisibility spell.
With certain downsides... and as with all illusions, it's a sandbox, and I think that's also the beauty of it: You leave effects undefined to give players FREEDOM rather than restriction. Isn't that really nice?
Quote
Locate City wasn't meant to blow a miles-wide crater in the ground. Nor was it meant to turn hundreds of thousands of people into a wightocalypse.
1HD commoners weren't good for nothing anyway. Just get rid of them :).
Quote
Explosive Runes wasn't meant to be able to blow up the moon and half the world, either. Nor was it meant to deal thousands of d6's of damage to a single creature, no save.
This one I've just never understood, really. There is actually no excuse for this one.
Quote
Shrink Item wasn't meant to be used to deal hundreds of thousands of points of damage with an orbital bombardment. Nor was it meant to be used in conjunction with Fabricate to Craft 4000x as much material per round. Nor was it meant to grant virtual immunity from Antimagic Fields.
But it's great, isn't it?
Quote
Genesis wasn't meant to grant access to planes made totally out of platinum. Or planes with the flowing time (fast) trait. Or funky-gravity setups that lead to infinite energy machines.
The trouble is, as always, that there are no physics inherent in the system.... if conservation of energy were an issue, then this all wouldn't work :).
Quote
Forcecage wasn't supposed to be teamed up with Dimensional Anchor, Cloudkill, and/or Acid Fog for certain death.
I would tend to disagree. I THINK they knew what they were doing when they wrote Forcecage...
Quote
Reverse Gravity wasn't supposed to be teamed up with Prismatic Sphere for near-certain death.

Solid Fog wasn't...actually, there's no excuse for Solid Fog.
How about... Solid fog is fine? The GAME WORLD was just never meant to make sense! If it's only the PCs and very few select NPCs wielding such dangerous fourth level spells... it's all FINE.
Quote
Nor Gate.
Gate has an XP cost for summoning. Noone would ever use it.... duh.
Quote
Nor Shapechange.
But the FUN that can be had with Shapechange is just... so.... FUN :).
Quote
Summon Nature's Ally wasn't supposed to be a better Cure spell than a Cure spell.
But Cure spells suck anyway, so....
Quote
Fireball wasn't supposed to be near-useless.
It's not, actually, if you fight a LOT of low-level mooks with poor ref saves. I remember in my first ever D&D campaign Fireball was GREAT. We were so in AWE at this massive killing power, because we were all puny beings who could deal 1d8+3 in melee :).

And even later, Fireball is still great, because if you randomly shoot it at a party of PCs, it'll ALWAYS kill the monk who will fail his Ref save with a natural 1. Seen it happen, countless times :).