Iajutsu Focus

[Smokey_the_bear]

Now, since I've come to BG I've seen a lot of Factotum builds that mention abusing IF. They usually deal with the concept of wearing X swords and drawing them as a free action (with quick draw), using IF, dropping the weapon as a free action and then repeating. I thought this was really nifty especially since I'm about to run a 15th lvl game and one of my players plans on using IF a lot. I figured I should read up on it. Now, when I got to the chapter on Iajutsu Duals (not the skill description) I read something interesting. It said that you deal the extra IF damage upon a successful attack. It also said that when you win the IF your opponent is flatfooted (for the entire round IIRC) and you CANNOT enter into another Iajutsu Dual unless combat drops and both individuals re-sheathe their weapons.

Now, if you're only able to apply IF dmg on a successful atk, to me that means you have to use an attack action which you only have as many attacks as your BaB allows (not including haste, belts of battle, factotum abilities and the like).

Am I right or is there something I'm missing?

If I am, that really rains on a lot of peoples parades. Which, isn't my intention at all. It was just something I came across and wanted the board's opinion.

I mean, a 19th lvl Factotum would still be able to drop around 19d6 on someone using IF and the cunning brilliance ability to mimic Sneak Attack since the victim is flatfooted for the initial IF strike. But that's neither here nor there.

Your thoughts?

[snakeman830]

IF duals (which is what you're refrencing) are different from using IF in normal combat.  A dual is a formal agreement and test, but a lot of your enemies won't honor you by agreeing to that form of combat.

IF in normal combat can only be used against a flat-footed foe (not "denied Dex bonus", Flat-footed.  There is a difference.) and deals up to 9d6 extra damage on a check result of something like 50.  However, my guess is the player in question has the intent of having Iiajitsu Master 5 in the build, which boosts the damage considerably (adding Cha bonus to each die).

[Takanaki]

Using IF for a duel is different from using it for extra damage in combat. I believe you need some kind of consent to start an IF duel, you can't just drop it on someone but I will check the book.... yes and it needs to be sanctioned by your lord but we can ignore that part.

For a normal person using IF, of course you are limited to your normal number of attacks. No matter how quickly you can draw your weapon it would be stupid to assume you could draw/drop an unlimited amount of weapons per round. Fortunately RAW you have to hit with an attack for IF to work.

[Smokey_the_bear]

Fortunately RAW you have to hit with an attack for IF to work.

That's what I was looking for. Thank you 

[Heliomance]

I thought the standard way to (ab)use IF was to wield a Gnomish Quickrazor. It's an exotic weapon from Races of Stone that can be sheathed as a free action.

And yes, the fact that it works off flatfootedness not denied  dex bonus means, among other things, that it works against opponents with Uncanny Dodge.

[Operation Shoestring]

I thought the standard way to (ab)use IF was to wield a Gnomish Quickrazor. It's an exotic weapon from Races of Stone that can be sheathed as a free action.

And yes, the fact that it works off flatfootedness not denied  dex bonus means, among other things, that it works against opponents with Uncanny Dodge.

Don't forget, thanks to an option from complete warrior, gnomes can get free proficiency in the quickrazor.

Also, the blurstrike ability from Races of the Wild is excellent for IF

[Viletta Vadim]

While the quickrazor is certainly good for some IF uses, I believe Iaijutsu Master specifically requires that you use a katana (AFB).

[Operation Shoestring]

While the quickrazor is certainly good for some IF uses, I believe Iaijutsu Master specifically requires that you use a katana (AFB).

Wasn't there a transforming weapon thingamajig?  (Aptitude?)

Or just get as many Eager Katana's as you have attacks if the DM rules 1 draw per attack.

[SorO_Lost]

While the quickrazor is certainly good for some IF uses, I believe Iaijutsu Master specifically requires that you use a katana (AFB).

Nope. Strike From The Void don't say anything about having to use a Katana.
Also, you can hold a Katana one handed (it's a bastard sword) and use the razors with your primary hand to net the Int to AC by RAW.

[bearsarebrown]

Or Aptitude Quickrazors. Arguably.

[Brainpiercing]

Or Aptitude Quickrazors. Arguably.

You use the Aptitude Quickrazor to get the benefit of the weapon focus(katana) that Iaijutsu master needs, but you can't get the benefit of a class ability with aptitude, only of feats. Luckily, IIRC the class abilities don't really mention katanas, I don't think...

However, to the OP: Every attack you make is an attack action. If you get an additional one from haste, that's also an attack action. If you get two additional ones from Raging Mongoose, those are also attack actions. So yeah, if you can keep your enemy flat-footed and if you can keep drawing a weapon then you can keep IFing with as many attacks as you have. That's why of course optimising the number of attacks is something that you can do to maximise damage from IF.

[Smokey_the_bear]

I realize that. It's just that a lot of builds I saw claimed for you to be able to use it an infinite amount of times

[Heliomance]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were builds out there that can make infinite IF attacks. They are well  past mature cheddar, beyond Gouda, and well into the realm of Stinking Bishop.

[PhaedrusXY]

I realize that. It's just that a lot of builds I saw claimed for you to be able to use it an infinite amount of times

Well, if you can make infinite attacks, Iaijutsu Focus doesn't really add much to that...

[Smokey_the_bear]

I realize that. It's just that a lot of builds I saw claimed for you to be able to use it an infinite amount of times

Well, if you can make infinite attacks, Iaijutsu Focus doesn't really add much to that...

They never claimed to be able to make infitnite attacks, just that you didn't have to use an attack action in order to do IF damage because of some wonkey reading of the description. So as long as you had weapons to draw and could draw them as a free action then you'd be able to keep applying IF damage.

[Operation Shoestring]

I realize that. It's just that a lot of builds I saw claimed for you to be able to use it an infinite amount of times

Well, if you can make infinite attacks, Iaijutsu Focus doesn't really add much to that...

Good point.

Does the text actually require 1 draw per attack?  because I remembered it as draw and attack on same round....

[Bozwevial]

On a related note, does anyone remember where the build that used Iaijutsu Focus in combination with Whirling Blade and Sculpt Spell was? Neat little concept, I thought. It may have Factotum in it.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I realize that. It's just that a lot of builds I saw claimed for you to be able to use it an infinite amount of times

Well, if you can make infinite attacks, Iaijutsu Focus doesn't really add much to that...

Good point.

Does the text actually require 1 draw per attack?  because I remembered it as draw and attack on same round....

"If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage, based on the result of an Iaijutsu Focus check. "

[JaronK]

Which is a bit unclear, but I find that using Quickrazors gets the job done easily enough.  It also removes all questions and lets you avoid the "have 100 Katanas" issue.

The other big reason Factotums are so good at using IF is because they have so many ways to flat foot opponents, from incredible initiative to the ability to cast Grease and Glitterdust.

JaronK

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Of course, you could just shell out a couple of sp and throw marbles.  That works too.