Author Topic: Mundane Equipment for a soldier  (Read 3176 times)

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shandiris

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Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« on: November 01, 2009, 12:13:45 PM »
In my scheming of a new campaign, my main BBEG is going to be an arms dealer. See: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5651.0
In my plot I want the PC's to meet super equipped armies of guys. So my question is:

How would you equip say 500 lvl 1 guys (preferably warriors) for 700gp each excluding magical equipment? (and animals)

I thought of an high AC package with a: splint mail (200gp), tower shield (30gp), 2 Tanglefootbags (100gp) and a MWK Longsword (315gp)

But I'm sure I'm missing something here, so please share!

telehax

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 12:56:14 PM »
If you're sending 500 at them I assume they're about level 8, at least, so they can afford to have at least a few archers to pound down on them. Give some of them crossbows, drop the masterwork from their longswords.
Alchemicals like tanglefoot bags work, though be careful, launching a lot of them at the players at once can be overwhelming.

shandiris

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 01:04:16 PM »
If you're sending 500 at them I assume they're about level 8, at least, so they can afford to have at least a few archers to pound down on them. Give some of them crossbows, drop the masterwork from their longswords.
Alchemicals like tanglefoot bags work, though be careful, launching a lot of them at the players at once can be overwhelming.

Although they will be around that lvl at the time, I probaly won't send 500 at them (unless they're stupid and start to provoke it ofc) My main goal is to impress them with how well equipped these guys are. Maybe I'll send them after one of the shipments of weapons or something. The BBEG is supplying directly to armies but that could also mean that suddenly the stupid 5 man patrol (they ussually scoff at around lvl 8) becomes an well equipped threat.

Madwand

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 02:08:03 PM »
If your BBEG wants PCs to respect his power, make him genre-savvy enough to know that equipping mere Warriors with expensive equipment isn't the way to do it: instead, spend that money on the best training possible! Ideally that means higher-level mooks, or a mix of levels in your mooks that reflects their rank in his organization. Note that equipping these grunts with wealth that is worth more than their relative threat is just a good way to make PCs notice that they get a lot richer than normal fighting this guys organization: the exact opposite of what your BBEG wants.

No matter the level you give these mooks, I've found Warblade levels are ideal for making low-level grunts a threat to high-level PCs. The key is not better-than-normal equipment, but a choice of maneuvers, feats, and abilities that ensure your grunts get in at least one good hit before dying. Punishing Stance, Steely Strike, possibly Leading the Attack or Sapphire Nightmare Blade are all good options for this. A good two-handed weapon is preferred so the strike hurts when it hits. Vials of acid are OK if you need touch attacks to get through. Azure Toughness + Bonus Essentia or Endurance + Diehard are useful for allowing your mooks to survive to get that one hit in, alternately weapon focus is decent as every +1 to hit matters when you are fighting hard-to-hit targets as your PCs are likely to be. Combat Expertise + Improved Trip + Guisarm is also an excellent combination.

For equipment, I recommend sticking to the basics for armor. These warriors don't want to be slowed down, so Chain shirt + buckler is excellent. If you don't mind your PCs getting ahold of them, Chahar-aina and Dastana can add another 2 AC and also possibly impress your PCs. If your mooks are rich, then a masterwork weapon is excellent as are tanglefoot bags - just be aware that this may make them the preferred prey of your PCs!

bearsarebrown

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 02:16:20 PM »
ARCHERS. There is no better way to ensure they get a hit in. Give each of them one magic arrow. On a per/mook basis that's actually cheaper then Masterwork. And the ability to ignore that DR will be HUGE.

And/Or look into the 'Rockin the Phalanx' guide that floating around here somewhere.

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 02:20:51 PM »
  What he should do is: take all that equipment, all 350,000gp of it, and sell it. Then he can equip himself up to being someone who is acting rationally. I'd start with some UMD boosting items (might need to pay for a psychic reformation to get 1 rank) and some intelligence and wisdom enhancements (we know he needs those; he considered equipping fireball-targets with mundane gear). Sky's the limit from there. I'd go with mostly scrolls from that point on.

  The point is: why is he spending his money in this way? That's probably the least effective thing he could do with it. He could get three or four competent people to work for him, each magically-equipped enough to be useful. Or, I guess, he could set up some pins for orcs and kobolds to knock over. Eh, whatever floats his boat, I guess.




bearsarebrown

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 02:24:47 PM »
Or buy each of them a ton of Riding Dogs. If only for the hilarity of 500 people sicking 2500 dogs on a group.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 02:39:25 PM »
Guisarmes, tanglefoot bags, chain shirt, chahar-aina, dastana, and composite longbows. And horses.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ninjarabbit

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2009, 03:47:18 PM »
Or buy each of them a ton of Riding Dogs. If only for the hilarity of 500 people sicking 2500 dogs on a group.

You stole my idea, though I might go with guard dogs at 25 gps each instead of riding dogs at 150 gps each.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2009, 03:58:23 PM »
Or buy each of them a ton of Riding Dogs. If only for the hilarity of 500 people sicking 2500 dogs on a group.
You stole my idea, though I might go with guard dogs at 25 gps each instead of riding dogs at 150 gps each.
Release the hounds! :lol
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 04:27:58 PM by BowenSilverclaw »
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

ninjarabbit

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2009, 04:18:28 PM »
Or buy each of them a ton of Riding Dogs. If only for the hilarity of 500 people sicking 2500 dogs on a group.
Release the hounds! :lol
You stole my idea, though I might go with guard dogs at 25 gps each instead of riding dogs at 150 gps each.
Now all we have to do is Min/Max puppy mills

Tshern

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2009, 04:25:46 PM »
I thought dogs were animals, the creatures banned in the first post.

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shandiris

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2009, 04:27:01 PM »
I thought dogs were animals, the creatures banned in the first post.

Thank you, I thought i had typed some kind of invisibile text....

shandiris

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2009, 04:29:56 PM »

Quote
Guisarmes, tanglefoot bags, chain shirt, chahar-aina, dastana, and composite longbows. And horses.

Hmm thanks exactly what I was looking for. First time i looked at chahar-aina and dastanas they're quite nice, would a mwk version be just +1 AC, no disadvantage whatsoever? :o

Quote
If your mooks are rich, then a masterwork weapon is excellent as are tanglefoot bags - just be aware that this may make them the preferred prey of your PCs!
Didn't consider the wealth, prey to PC's relation yet. Will think about it.

Quote
The point is: why is he spending his money in this way? That's probably the least effective thing he could do with it. He could get three or four competent people to work for him, each magically-equipped enough to be useful. Or, I guess, he could set up some pins for orcs and kobolds to knock over. Eh, whatever floats his boat, I guess.

The point is that he's making 368550gp worth of Alchemy, Armor and Weapons. (Unseen Crafter) And while he's probaly selling 98% of that, he will have some leftovers for his own personal guard/army. What does he do with that?


Braithwaite

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2009, 05:13:54 PM »
What about poison? Yes, the cheap poisons have awful DCs, but most PCs still fail saves on a 1. 1d6+5% chance of stat damage is scarier than 1d6+1.

Sooner

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2009, 06:38:32 PM »
I think you could get pretty creative with this is you invested enough time (i.e probably too much).

Have 400 soldiers in squads of 8, boost this by having the additional 100 representing sargents and lieutenants. This leaves you with 50 squads consisting of 8 soldiers and two commanders.

The best way to represent this in game is to build a group archetype.

Lieutenants:
Party Face - Most skilled soldier - oldest too.

Potential classes:
Cleric, Warblade (white Raven tactics), Urban Ranger, Battle Sorc, Sorc

Sargent:
Highly skilled soldier - Manages the men

Potential Classes:
Any Tome of Battle with Stone Dragon probably fitting the best, Urban Ranger, Fighter with optimized feats and wep

The apes:
The riff raff, the pc breakfast

Potential classes:
Depending on the challenge you are going for I would reccomend either fighters or Warblades. Be sure to include someone who can track and a good skillmonkey (rogue) to the group.

Now each one doesn't have to follow this exactly, play around with it. Also I realize there are a lot less lieutenants than sargents so maybe sargent could be subbed for the best enlisted man and lieutenant subbed for sarge

As far as items for them. just give the threatening pieces to the higher ups and let the soldiers steal from people they kill, you know, kinda like pcs.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 06:40:31 PM by Sooner »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2009, 07:57:52 PM »
If you're actually looking to figure out how to optimize them, instead of just equip them, there was a thread on this a long time ago on 339. You're going to want bards, marshals, and a few casters to lay down group buffs and battlefield control, and to deal with the other guy's casters.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2009, 10:08:28 PM »
Oh I thought it meant you were looking for mundane (and animals).  :banghead

JaronK

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2009, 11:50:08 PM »
I like Brigadine Mail from A&EG for soldiers.  It's +4 AC for only 30gp, much cheaper than other options.  For the rest it depends on class.   At 700gp each you can actually easily afford mounts, which are the true way to power.  Get the best you can afford.  Warbeast Desmoderu Hunting Bats, 1HD advanced, would be great!  They're quite cheap (IIRC about 400gp each) and provide excellent damage (far better than the warriors themselves), incredible manueverability and speed, and amazing detection.  Then give the warriors lances and put better light armor on the bats (since they're the actually impressive guys here).  Really, 700gp each is WAY too much for level 1 warriors.  Why spend so much on the warriors, who themselves are worth so little?  Just buy lots of bats!

An important part of any low level army is of course Masterwork War Drums (Complete Adventurer).  These with a bard boosts the entire army.  If you can get a bunch of Dragonfire Inspiration Bards, each of a different element, and one standard bard, the net result is that everyone in your army does enough damage to kill a much higher level opponent with one hit.  Consider that 5 bards with Masterwork War Drums, each with Dragonfire Inspiration, can add 2d6 fire damage, 2d6 cold damage, 2d6 acid damage, 2d6 sonic damage, and 2d6 electrical damage to every attack in your entire army while simultaneously giving commands via music!  At only 150gp or so each, that's a steal.  At that point, all you need to do is equip your guys for defense and turn them loose.

JaronK

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Mundane Equipment for a soldier
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2009, 11:56:41 PM »
I found my old post from the thread on optimizing armies. We were working within a certain set of parameters, so some of the constraints may seem artificial, but it might be useful. Skip to the end to see how I arranged them all, and how each "combat unit" functions in different situations.

[spoiler]NPC Classes:
Level 1: 375
Level 2: 50
Level 3: 5

PC Classes:
Level 1: 100
Level 2: 50
Level 3: 15
Level 4: 4
Level 5: 1

600 total (170 "PCs" and 430 "NPCs")

Total wealth by level: 199,600
Add an extra ~25% from liege (rounded): 250,000 gp available for equipping them (less than 176,000 actually used below)

There was an agreement that only a certain fraction of them could cast spells, but I forget what the exact number was.

EDITED AGAIN: NPC classes get the standard array (3x 10's, 3x 11's), PC classes get the elite array.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12233079&postcount=34

Ok, here is what I have so far. I need to stop messing with this, but I can't help myself from continuing to tweak it. Yes, each and every unit is a Forest gnome, riding a dog, except for the "bombers". :D I haven't spent nearly all the gold (175,703 so far), so alot of improvements could be done. I'm thinking in particular that Permanent Telepathic Bond on one individual per combat unit, and all linked to the level 5 wizard or the druid he is with, would be a good investment.

The Gnome-Dog Army

This isn't included in their individual equipment lists, but I'm giving every individual 1 alchemist's fire, and one vial of acid (they are gnomes, after all). This should let them actually take down much more powerful monsters that they'd normally only hit on a natural 20 with their crossbows. This cost 18,000 gold in all.

Level 1s

250 Forest Gnome Warrior 1s (57 gp each, 14250 total)
Feat: Toughness
Equipment: hide armor (15 gp), longspear (5 gp), club (0 gp), light crossbow (35 gp), 20 bolts (2 gp)
Str 8, Dex 11, Con 12, Wis 11, Int 11, Cha 10
Skill: Handle Animal +2, Ride +2, Hide +8 (+12 in forests)
HP 8, AC 14, Attacks: longspear +1 (1d6-1, 20/x3), light crossbow +2 (1d6, 19-20/x2), or Club +1 (1d4-1)

125 Forest Gnome Adept 1s (57 gp each, 7125 total)
Feat: Toughness
Str 8, Dex 11, Con 13, Wis 11, Int 10, Cha 10
Skill: Handle Animal +2, Ride +2, Hide +8 (+12 in forests)
HP 7, AC 13, Attacks: Longspear +0 (1d6-1), light crossbow +1 (1d6, 19-20/x2)
Spells Prepared: 0 level: 3 Cure Minor Wounds, 1st level: 1/4th Obscuring Mist, 1/4th Bless, 1/2 Cure Light Wounds
Equipment: Leather Armor (10 gp), Longspear (5gp), light crossbow (35 gp), 20 bolts (2 gp)

Level 2s (900 gp for level 2s and 3s combined)
16 Adepts
34 Warriors

Level 3s
3 Adepts, w/ Toughness and Mounted Combat
7 Warriors, w/Toughness and Mounted Combat


Level 1 PCs (59110 gp)
90 Forest Gnome Druids with riding dog companions (only 1/3 cast spells)
Equipment: hide armor (15 gp), shortspear (1gp), sling, leather barding (20 gp) (36 gp each)

10 Forest Gnome Wizards. They all know Silent Image and Grease. They use Silent Image to tactically misdirect the enemy. They also have several scrolls, including Silent Image (2, free), 3 scrolls of Haste (20th CL, 1500), See Invisibility, and Glitterdust (675 scrolls). They also each have a scroll of Greater Magic Weapon (375), which they use to enchant a volley of bolts for their entire platoon, if needed to penetrate damage reduction. They have light crossbows, and clubs (37 gp).

Level 2 PCs (1800 gp)
50 Forest Gnome Druids with riding dog companions (only 1/3 cast spells)
Equipment: Hide Armor (15 gp), shortspear (1gp), Sling, Leather Barding (20 gp) (36 gp each)

Level 3 PCs (3768 gp)
12 Forest Gnome Druids with riding dog companions (only 2 cast spells). Feats are Toughness and Mounted Combat. Equipment: Hide Armor (15 gp), shortspear (1gp), Sling, Leather Barding (20 gp) (36 gp each)

3 Forest Gnome Wizards, with 3 scrolls of Fireball (975) and 2 scrolls of Protection from Arrows each (900 total cost). All the wizards know Silent Image, Feather Fall, and Protection from Arrows. They are part of the "aerial bombarbment units", and cast Protection from Arrows on themselves, the druid, and his mount before taking off. They have light crossbows, and clubs (37 gp).

Level 4 PCs (will equip later, but they should have the best defenses of the group)
druids with dire bat companions (only 2 cast)

Level 5 PC (3700 gp)
Forest Gnome Wizard 5 (Abjurer, Necromancy and Enchantment prohibited), with 3 scrolls of Evard's Black Tentacles (700 each), Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (3,000).

1st level spells: Silent Image
2nd level spells: Summon Swarm, Glitterdust, Protection from Arrows, Alter Self, Flaming Sphere
3rd level spells: Tiny Hut, Wind Wall, Shrink Item, Dispel Magic, Fireball

33 familiars (3300gp)
They have an equal mix of hawks (+16 Spot) cats (+16/20 Hide, Scent), and bats for scouting. The hawks spot the enemies initially, and the cats go in for close recon work if needed. The bats are there to find invisible enemies with their blindsense. The adepts all have ranks in Speak Language (sign) and also have ranks in the various Knowledge skills (1 rank in 2-3 different skills per adept). This combined with the forest gnome's ability to speak with animals in a crude fashion allows the familiars to give detailed scouting reports.

449 Riding Dogs with leather barding (592 including the druidic companions) (one for each gnome, the gnomes can talk to them, and have trained them for war) (170 gp each, 63750 total)
HP 13, AC 18, Attack: bite +3 (1d6+3)
Speed 40
Feats: Alertness, Track
SQ: Scent

10 Standard Combat Units (EL ~13)[25 level 1warriors, 12-13 level 1 adepts, 2 level 2 or 3 NPCs (mix of warriors and adepts), 1 level 1 wizard, 9 level 1 druids, 6 other druids (mostly level 2, some level 3), 55-56 riding dogs, 3 familiar "scouts" (1 cat, 1 hawk, 1 bat)]

4 Aerial Bombardment Units (EL ~6) (1 druid4, 1 giant bat, 1 wizard5 or sorcerer4)
All the wizards and sorcerers have bat familiars, which they use to "scan" an area with Blindsense before fireballing, to make sure their target isn't an illusion. The druids each carry three shrunken items (barrels full of flaming oil, trees, boulders, etc) which they drop on the enemies, or use to block their passage. The 5th level wizard shrinks three items per day (Extended), to keep these stocked up.


Tactics:

At the beginning of any encounter, each standard troup has Bless cast on it. In a very tough battle, each unit's wizard also casts Haste on as many of the mounts as possible (all three scrolls would get them all, and a few gnomes). Each group is capable of casting at least 3 Entangles, two Silent Images, a Grease, a See Invisibilty and/or Glitterdust, several Cure Light Wounds, and loads of Cure Minor Wounds. When necessary for beating damage reduction, they also have access to Greater Magic Weapon (50 bolts). Each gnome also has one alchemist's fire and vial of acid each. If it might be needed, you could rework things a bit to add at least one cleric with Align Weapon to each troup to beat alignment based DR.

Open Plain: Mounted archery. Use the mounts to stay out of melee. Druids and wizards try to use battlefield control to slow the enemies.

Forest: Dogs enter melee, the gnomes stay back and fire from cover/concealment. The druids use Entangle. They use stealth as much as possible to their advantage, and also use illusions to draw enemies into traps, bogs, etc.

Underground: Since their mounts can go in most places a humanoid could, they can fight from "dog back". Although they'd rather avoid melee, it would be difficult in this terrain type. So they'd try to avoid engaging enemies underground if at all possible.[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 12:36:19 AM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]