Author Topic: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)  (Read 20777 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Alastar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1028
    • Email
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2009, 02:12:26 PM »
even without the ghost deflection AC, he still has around 30-35 AC due to monk and arcane duelist, (43 to be precise)  True strike works for one attack, so it's pretty useless for a shadow pouncer.

For the orb of force, a wizard level 16 has +8 BAB, +5 dex gets you to 13, true strike to 33, meaning you need a 10 to hit.  That's with ONE of your orbs.


Just saying, if touch attacks are your shtick, think again.

Kal Zakath

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 03:28:58 PM »
correct me if am wrong but:

you do have a strength score, ghost does not state that you lose it (additionally the monster entry retains its strength score).
Ray of enfeeblement. This spell does not allow a save, nor does Strength damage, it imposes a penalty. If your strength score drops to one the wait of your gear would count as a medium load at least. Since it would weigh more than 3 pounds which is a medium creatures light load limit. since you have a medium load now, your max Dex is +3. and you don't get the Monk bonus. I don't know if you still retain the arcane duelist ability, but if it is like the duelist in the DMG, you lose that too. I don't see a source of SR, so you can't shake it.

admitedly this still requires a touch attack before you it drops your AC. But it does save having to cast true strike multiple times to hit you.

Alastar

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1028
    • Email
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2009, 03:31:41 PM »
Also... ghosts are kinda undead, they're immune to that...

Kal Zakath

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2009, 03:36:18 PM »
Also... ghosts are kinda undead, they're immune to that...

i was not sure as it did not damage ability scores nor allowed a fort save.

Edit: the Undead type states immunity to ability drain and physical ability damage. or anything that allows a fort save unless it also aplies to objects
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 03:40:08 PM by Kal Zakath »

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2009, 03:42:37 PM »
Also... ghosts are kinda undead, they're immune to that...
I don't think they are, strangely enough...

It's not like it would matter much to him, though. It can't reduce his str below 1, and it's a 2 to start with... Most of his abilities don't care about gear, either. So he could probably carry all that matters even with a strength of 1...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kal Zakath

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2009, 03:47:29 PM »
Also... ghosts are kinda undead, they're immune to that...
I don't think they are, strangely enough...

It's not like it would matter much to him, though. It can't reduce his str below 1, and it's a 2 to start with... Most of his abilities don't care about gear, either. So he could probably carry all that matters even with a strength of 1...

its not about making him immobile. its to give him a medium load, which negates some of this AC. (between 1-28 of it)

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2009, 03:55:17 PM »
imp blink means he's flatfooted too. He loses Dex, dodge, and his deflection. His AC is 36.

8 BAB
+7 Dex (18+6(item)) (I'm already pumping dex for Initiative so this is actually a low estimate.
+2 Attacking from Invisibility!
+2 from attacking from high ground
+2 Flank
+1 Haste
__
=24 Roll a 12 to hit, or true strike and be sure.

Other Options
Divine Power would give me another 8 BAB if I have domain access.
AMF and you'll wink out. Then Force Cage -> Dimensional Anchor ->Maw of Chaos-> Dismiss AMF
Ray of Enfeeblement does work because it's a penalty, not damage. That was a good idea Kal Zak, it'd lose almost all his AC. Anything more the 3lb would put him into a Medium load.
Polymorph cheese.
Cleric turning...
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 03:57:11 PM by bearsarebrown »

Negative Zero

  • Grape ape
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
    • Email
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2009, 04:11:28 PM »
A Sorcerer with Arcane Spellsurge could throw out a couple of Empowered Arcane Fusions with True Strike and Orb of Force in each, right? Of course, if that doesn't do enough, Celerity, Arcane Fusion (True Strike and Orb of Force) ought to finish the job. A member of my party right now could do that. With True Strike, his attack bonus is +44. That ought to be good enough.

Edit: Actually, there's no point in using Arcane Spellsurge. I'm just used to the "A battle is starting, ergo Spellsurge." mentality.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 04:18:53 PM by Negative Zero »

Emy

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2009, 12:04:27 AM »
Also... ghosts are kinda undead, they're immune to that...
I don't think they are, strangely enough...

It's not like it would matter much to him, though. It can't reduce his str below 1, and it's a 2 to start with... Most of his abilities don't care about gear, either. So he could probably carry all that matters even with a strength of 1...

its not about making him immobile. its to give him a medium load, which negates some of this AC. (between 1-28 of it)

Ghosts don't have a Strength score. Not because of the template itself, but due to the incorporeal subtype.

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2009, 01:16:33 AM »
Ghosts don't have a Strength score. Not because of the template itself, but due to the incorporeal subtype.

That's what I thought until I saw that example ghost in MM does...

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2009, 01:31:07 AM »
Ghosts don't have a Strength score. Not because of the template itself, but due to the incorporeal subtype.

That's what I thought until I saw that example ghost in MM does...
Never go by the examples. They're wrong more often than they are right.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Kal Zakath

  • Ring-Tailed Lemur
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2009, 01:40:55 AM »
Perhaps they don't have a Strength score relative to the Material plane, the fact that it is treated as normal for creatures attacking attack from the ethereal plane suggests that it would retain its strength score on the ethereal. Additionally, the fact that they can move objects around them with their hands, such as ghost touch weapons, suggests they have a strength score.

Cephid Arcanis

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2009, 01:41:58 AM »
Ok, wow. That is a lot of responses overnight.
First up, the build started as a medium level build with some wicked stats. For some reason I kept finding nice things to add until now it is ECL:17, and I'm competing against 9th level spells and powers. Not my plan, and NOT a good idea.

I'll see how I go answering what I can:
It's not like it would matter much to him, though. It can't reduce his str below 1, and it's a 2 to start with... Most of his abilities don't care about gear, either. So he could probably carry all that matters even with a strength of 1...
An incorporeal creature has no strength score, so none of those approaches work. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/monsterTypes.html)

* your Con goes from 8 to 0, i.e. you die upon reaching venerable age. (No, you cannot age as a ghost)
* your Dex goes from 17 to 11; +4 item => 15
* your Str goes from 8 to 2
HP: 12 + 11d12 = 83.5
BAB: 9/4; dex to hit +2
1) Correct, my con goes to 0 and I died...and became a ghost. The mental bonuses remain.
2) yep, I only added -3 when I should have added -6. Will fix that.
3) No strength score.
4) We use partial BAB and partial saves. Otherwise my BAB would be 9 like you said, and my saves would be significantly higher.

You could use the Huant shift trick to remove your self from the ethereal plane and into an object. The you can manifest and get the Hardness stuff to avoid damage. At level 17, if they challenger cant relaibly hit incorporeal foes they are doing it wrong.
Sounds interesting, what is haunt shift?
a greater blink or etherealness spell will remove your deflection bonus to AC. The ghost ability says that you gain the Defection when you manifest. The manifest ability states it does not protect from ethereal foes.
Would haunt shift save me from these nasty lads using greater blink or etherealness spell as I am not on the ethereal plane?

First off, as people have said you screwed yourself with the LA opening yourself up to 9th level spells.
Agreed! Ghost also opens up the whole cleric turning thing, which it seems there is no way around. (I do have +4 turn resistance  :()
Would I be better off dropping ghost and swapping to a nixie or something? For the purpose of this challange, just droppping ghost would save me against all level 7th, 8th & 9th level spells too!  ;)
An elf archer with a force bow and woodland archery would get you in one round.
Now that is interesting. If you are getting enough attacks your to hit roll will be huge. You'd need to make around 7 attack rolls to get enough bonus to hit.
Oh, I know! I'm in the floor!! When I fly out to possess your mind you can at best only make a single readied action. And that is if you somehow knew I was there. See invis etc won't help as I'm in the floor/wall/ceiling and you can't hear me. And I don't think an elf is going to make a DC:27 fort save with a -6 penalty. Depends on the environment I suppose. If the elf is outside and flying I can't get near him. In that case we'd just go about our respective lives in peace...until you die of old age! ;)

He casts a Chained Greater Dispel Magic, knocking down all your buffs and magic items for 1d4 rounds (his caster level is 20), and then hits you with Heal a couple of times (from a staff he keeps in his backpack).
He can't target me or attack me when I'm in the floor.

His saves are so high he'd only fail against any of your abilities on a 1

What the?! How does he have a +33 fort/will save?! (unless he is a mirror of this build  ;))

A. A Cleric Turns undead killing you for 2d4 days, no save.

B. Any Wizard, if you're stuck where you died they just cast shrink item and toss the dungeon, cave, house, chunk of land, etc. into a bag of holding.

C. Any Bard, epic diplomacy check convinces you to tell your back story, then the epic bluff check convinces you to pass on.

D. Cheesy Wizards, Uncanny Forethought->Geass->Go kill my enemies. It's better than simply killing anything.

E. Any Rogue, uses Ghoststrike or whatever it's called to SA after feinting you, you die in one round.

F. Any Factotum, summons Pazuzu and wishes for a Ring of Wishes, or w/e. Then he summons Pazuzu again for another wish and obtains a Helm of Opposite Alignment to force his alignment to be LG no matter how many more times he summons Pazuzu. Sometime along the unlimited wishing you're removed for existence.

G. A bored adventuring party, cleric turns you but you live, the rogue goes easy on you, and the wizard casts Power Word Blind so you're cursed to be blind for the rest of your eternal existence.

Yeah, I think that's enough for now.

a) um...help? How can I get around a decent turn check without dropping ghost? Any way to get immune?
b) Try not to die first! And am I stuch where I die? doesn't say. Even if I was it would be the 3D location in space, not the dungeon/piece of ground it self.
c) haha. Best one yet! Hopefully I'd just step out of the wall and eat his mind before the 1 minute of diplomacy chat is up! And his back story is something like: "I have the overwhelming urge to be imortal" several hundred years later..."I'm doing well, not dead yet. I am getting rather old thou..." hits venerable, and starts to die of old age (con-->0)... "MUST  >. #_ BECOME _ . _ . IMMORTAL!!!!" By the extreme force of his personality (cha 30ish) he becomes a ghost. "EXCELLENT!!!" :smirk So the only way to satisfy him (and end his ghostlyness) is to help him become immortal!
d) sounds fun! lets do it! (but if I'm in a wall/floor you can't target me. True sight won't even find me so I'll supprise you. (yeah, yeah I know contingincy) Oh, and I'm immune to mind effecting!
e)He really won't hit me. And besides, I'm in the floor. (he doesn't have a wallstrike spell does he?)
f) Are you serious?! Look at the parts of my build. There are no broken bits at all! What's this about infinite wish tricks?
g) You can't target me cause in in the wall/floor. And to make it permanent you would have to first deal me 30+ damage...
huh, this situation is almost tailor-build for a shadowpouncing hellfire glaivelock with a level two incarnum dip.
Again, in the floor. No see, no hear, no pounce nothin!

So he is still doin OKish.
Remember, he can use his cleric domain ability(free action) to get +4 cha giving him another +6AC. I really don't think any of these options can hit me on the single readied action they get before I consume their mind, drain them to death or stun and coup de grace them.
So, almost no one can even see me, and if they find a way to, they get drained by my gaze and abilities!

Big fears are turning, and those really huge level 9 spells. Arcane casters have heaps of avoidance tactics but they need to know I am there and avoidance won't kill me.

What about a magic missile specialist. Can't they do something like 100+ damage with one casting (readied action when I attack) which can't miss? That would suck, but there are heaps of cheap ways to get immune to magic missile.

So I'll get blind sight (blindfold of true darkness) to find the sneaky ones and keep my full AC. I can also attack from within the wall!
How can I avoid Turning?
What is Haunt shift and would haunt shift save me from etherealness spell as I am not on the ethereal plane?
"It is the mark of a practiced mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it"

Cephid Arcanis

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2009, 01:53:04 AM »
You don't seem to have any type of uncanny dodge so an invisible enemy could get in a nice sneak attack. You don't seem to have any in built aerial capability, but that can be fixed with items.

I've gpt fly 30' (perfect) and fly by attack, so I can fly out of the wall, attack and return within my turn.
Blindsight will fix against sneak attack, and the rogue has to hit me first. Also, how does the rogue make sneak attack work on me in a single readied action. And lastly, if I attack from within the floor I have 50% miss AND 50% chance to ignore all corporall sources.
"It is the mark of a practiced mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it"

Nanshork

  • Man in Gorilla Suit
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • BOO!
    • Email
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2009, 02:03:08 AM »
You don't seem to have any type of uncanny dodge so an invisible enemy could get in a nice sneak attack. You don't seem to have any in built aerial capability, but that can be fixed with items.

I've gpt fly 30' (perfect) and fly by attack, so I can fly out of the wall, attack and return within my turn.
Blindsight will fix against sneak attack, and the rogue has to hit me first. Also, how does the rogue make sneak attack work on me in a single readied action. And lastly, if I attack from within the floor I have 50% miss AND 50% chance to ignore all corporall sources.

Greater Truedeath Crystal or any of the Alternate Class features that let Rogues sneak attack immune creatures for half of their sneak attack dice.
My babies - A thread of random builds I've come up with over the years.
Notes to self

bearsarebrown

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2616
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2009, 02:05:33 AM »
The 50% chances would be rolled separately. And the rogue is Greater Blinking, he's in the ground too  :D


Quote
AMF and you'll wink out. Then Force Cage -> Dimensional Anchor ->Maw of Chaos-> Dismiss AMF

I don't see any way around this one. Wait, dammnit. Would Mettle mean you take no damage on a successful save? Touche.

Cephid Arcanis

  • That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
  • ****
  • Posts: 253
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2009, 04:47:02 AM »
Would Mettle mean you take no damage on a successful save? Touche.

Yep  ;)

And even if someone makes me wink out with an AMF,
Actually, the fact I wink out in an AMF instead of just being stuck screwed with no (SU) abilities is one of the awesome aspects of the build.

And as for the Rogue:
First he has to know of my existance...
then he spends all this gold on a single use item (scroll of greater blinking)
casts it
sees me
Gets drained my 2 abilities
goes into the floor right where I am
and attacks my 56 touch AC
somehow manages to hit me (???)
and I still have a 50% miss chance for total concealment.
Then deals me half his sneak attack damage
which kills me (??)
all before I eat his mind...

sounds...challenging!
"It is the mark of a practiced mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it"

Lycanthromancer

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4003
    • Email
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2009, 05:26:58 AM »
My evolved undead necropolitan shaper 6/thrallherd 10 says to get lost with his army of casters spamming all sorts of nasty things, from magic missile to control undead to orb of force.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Saxony

  • Donkey Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 742
  • My avatar is from the anime "Pani Poni Dash!".
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2009, 05:45:31 AM »
I don't see why your 2 levels of Monk is granting you Charisma to AC instead of Wisdom.

If it's supposed to be wisdom, then your AC is going to 11 less. So 43 instead of 54. Still pretty respectable, though.

Also, your Flatfooted AC is going to be 23. (10+Deflection). That's a pretty much huge weakness. Even Wizards who get a few buff spells will be able to easily smack you in melee combat if they win initiative or get a surprise round. As far as I can see, your initiative modifier is just your Dexterity modifier, so your initiative modifier is +4. And even assuming max skill ranks, your spot/listen check modifier is going to be +17 (Thus, anyone who even halfheartedly tries to buff their stealth skills will be able to sneak by you).

So it will be easy to surprise you or win initiative. A sneaky-type will be able to do both on average, getting two full rounds of attacks off on you.

Honestly, a sneaky type with grave-strike (and every character I play who has Sneak Attack or similar bonus damage has this ability) will get two full rounds of attacks on you with sneak attack. Just the damage from two sneak attacks with the Craven feat will drop you (16d6+34 = 90 damage).

And if you give a 17th spellcaster a round to screw with you (And any well-built spellcaster is going to focus on Initiative more than you have), they've won.

As mentioned before, any 17th level Cleric with the Sun domain or Disciple of the Sun feat (Complete Divine) is going to instantly kill you for no save, every time. Or worse, they could be a Rebuke-optimized Cleric and simply Command you (Considering the level difference, it actually wouldn't be hard at all to do so. If you had more HD for your ECL, it would be much harder.). Again, no save, but now you're the cleric's slave instead of dead. Given the fact that you'd just resurrect in 2d4 days in the former case, I'd be more worried about Rebuking.

So clerics, wizards, and sneaky types will kill you. The Cleric may not win initiative, but will always kill you unless you immobilize/kill it. The other two will kill you before you can act.

That's three out of four archetypes that pretty much always win against you. Give a decently built fighter character (IE: deals over two hundred damage each round at this level) a ghost-touch weapon and they'd probably kill you if they won initiative. If they didn't win initiative, you would most definitely own them.

Unless I'm missing something, your initiative modifier is really your biggest weakness. At level 17, your character's power is mostly dependent on their initiative because 17th level characters are so powerful that they usually kill whatever they're facing in 1 round of combat. Your initiative is that of a level 1 Halfling Rogue.
If I say something about real world physics, and someone disagrees, assume I am right 90% of the time. This number goes up to 100% if I am late night posting - trust me, my star dust sibs.

JaronK

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 4039
Re: HELP KILL MY CHARACTER! (...or help me stop you)
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2009, 06:24:59 AM »
Well, my stock standard Factotum has Darkstalker, which should mean you can never see him.  I also (by level 14 or so) always have a Rod of Defiance and a Lyre of the Restful Soul, which drops your effective HD for turning down to 4 when pulled out (and does the same to all other undead in the area).  Turn Undead (Opportunistic Piety).  You're dead, and you never saw it coming (and so are a bunch of your undead friends if you have them!).  Note that this could be done by any Factotum with Darkstalker and those items by level 8... and have a massive initiative advantage.  A Cleric could do it too, but they'd be far less likely to just get the drop on you like that.

That won't kill the ghost for good, but I get the Exp for the kill and whatever items you had, and then I go on to do other things (hey, it's a level 17 character, who's gonna stick around for 2d4 days anyway?).  If push comes to shove I guess I could cast some divination spell to find out what it takes to finish off the ghostie.

JaronK