Author Topic: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7  (Read 2477 times)

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bhu

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3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« on: October 25, 2009, 09:24:57 AM »
Should it be assumed PC's are professional adventurers, or that they can come from virtually any background, or they begin as humble nobodies who claw their way to positions of power in the world?

RobbyPants

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 10:23:40 AM »
I'd say they come from any background, but functionally speaking we might consider them professional adventurers.  Unless the whole class system is redone, taking PC class levels already makes assumptions.

So, you might roll up a 14 year old sorcerer who just started learning his powers because of puberty, his stats as a first level sorcerer and his 25 (or more) point buy are mechanically making him more hardy than a commoner of his level.

So I'd say your back story can be about anything, but mechanically, I think he should be competent in common areas.
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veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 03:47:06 PM »
I'd say they come from any background, but functionally speaking we might consider them professional adventurers.  Unless the whole class system is redone, taking PC class levels already makes assumptions.

So, you might roll up a 14 year old sorcerer who just started learning his powers because of puberty, his stats as a first level sorcerer and his 25 (or more) point buy are mechanically making him more hardy than a commoner of his level.

So I'd say your back story can be about anything, but mechanically, I think he should be competent in common areas.
Agreed, but with a caveat. We make it clear what level range correspond to what sort of people in what sort of setting. With the baseline(level 1) at the lowest viable character of course(children, probably possible with the right stat mods and level 1, humanoid infants/toddlers, not feasibly emulatable)
E.g. No professional adventurer/soldier/mage is below 4th level, 10th level being demigodlike in low powered worlds(see Earth legends), but tuesday for high power worlds(see Forgotten Realms)
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awaken DM golem

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 04:17:08 PM »
4e is doing Backgrounds up the wazoo.
I like 1 level of an npc class, and heck, one 4e background just because of the volume of it.
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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 04:43:07 PM »
I'd say they come from any background, but functionally speaking we might consider them professional adventurers.  Unless the whole class system is redone, taking PC class levels already makes assumptions.

So, you might roll up a 14 year old sorcerer who just started learning his powers because of puberty, his stats as a first level sorcerer and his 25 (or more) point buy are mechanically making him more hardy than a commoner of his level.

So I'd say your back story can be about anything, but mechanically, I think he should be competent in common areas.
To me, this speaks more to a problem with the NPC classes than anything; ordinary folk stepping forward to become extraordinary heroes in difficult circumstances are a fantasy genre staple, but are poorly represented in 3.X design implementation.  I voted for 'any background'.
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Bauglir

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 06:18:16 PM »
I suppose that, in such a situation, I'd have a houserule where someone with NPC levels thrust into an adventure type situation can, at every level up, trade out a single NPC class level for a PC class level. That could represent the "becoming an extraordinary hero" deal, perhaps, without being too sudden.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 09:54:55 PM »
Far easier to have the NPC use the same system in the first place though. With added power via XP and stat increases.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
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There is no higher price than 'free'.

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Bauglir

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 10:50:06 PM »
True, but on the other hand, I also like having a system where people who don't adventure or have any reason to have superpowers can be modeled. Although maybe that would be better represented with a racial hit die (it makes some sense that Joe the Farmer has more hit points than Aarvindaarius the Wizard). I also don't think there's any reason for NPC classes to go over 5 or 6 levels, because by that point you're reaching power levels best dealt with by PCs. So I dunno, really, what would be best.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

bhu

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2009, 12:12:21 AM »
True, but on the other hand, I also like having a system where people who don't adventure or have any reason to have superpowers can be modeled. Although maybe that would be better represented with a racial hit die (it makes some sense that Joe the Farmer has more hit points than Aarvindaarius the Wizard). I also don't think there's any reason for NPC classes to go over 5 or 6 levels, because by that point you're reaching power levels best dealt with by PCs. So I dunno, really, what would be best.

Well kind of a par t of this poll is I'm really asking "Are PC's superheroes?  Or are they just the only ones crazy enough to risk life and limb to do what they do?"  In other words, do they stand out because they're more powerful than everyone else, or do they stand out simply because they have the balls to try and do whatever needs done.

Bauglir

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2009, 12:32:00 AM »
I think it's reciprocal. To my mind, PCs are going to be a bit better than everyone else (there's something about them that's just inherently above average). It gives them an edge, but there are people who're even further above average, somewhere. That makes it possible for them to do what they do; if the average campaign is an accurate reflection of adventurer mortality, then everyone would be signing up if they could (I'm estimating roughly 50% mortality as a highish value), if only for a couple of weeks. The rewards are just insane. But training and experience are even more important; a level 1 Warrior with straight 18s is going to have a tough time with a level 2 or 3 Fighter, even. But the only way to get that training and experience is by hero-ing. And the only way to survive your initial attempts at hero-ing is to be a bit better than everyone else, or be extremely lucky.

PCs would have, ideally, a few advantages; higher ability scores, maybe PC class levels if we keep the distinction, max hp at level 1, and maybe action points if you use those. It's actually a slightly false distinction, though, because some NPCs, somewhere, are going to have all those things or better, too. If you want the "rise up from wimpiness to true heroism" aspect, lose those advantages at character creation and either never get them, or have them gained gradually as the campaign advances. At any rate, such things need to apply to the whole party equally, if you need to see that aspect of character growth reflected mechanically. Otherwise you get Elfy McWizardpants doing his thing, making John Expert look like a real idiot.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 02:47:34 AM »
True, but on the other hand, I also like having a system where people who don't adventure or have any reason to have superpowers can be modeled. Although maybe that would be better represented with a racial hit die (it makes some sense that Joe the Farmer has more hit points than Aarvindaarius the Wizard). I also don't think there's any reason for NPC classes to go over 5 or 6 levels, because by that point you're reaching power levels best dealt with by PCs. So I dunno, really, what would be best.
Well, I figured the lower levels handled that...
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 09:58:47 AM »
Bauglir's racial HD and 1 for 1 level swapping options are good ones.  A level 1 commoner becoming a level 1 ranger by trading out the NPC class models the trope well, as does the idea of Sam the human commoner getting extra hit dice rather than extra levels.
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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 10:35:27 AM »
Subscribed  ;)
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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 7
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2009, 05:25:26 PM »
i voted clawed the way to the top.

if retraining is an option, then that lvl of commoner or expert dosnt hinder a full caster..

take two cousins, same age, neighbouring farms.. both spend their formative years laboring in identical ways on the farm. but ones a commoner and ones a dfa or a soul knife? nah, they were npc's before they made the big time.
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