[3.5]Companion Beasts

[AfterCrescent]

In addition to the above, I think Incarnum should have access to Abberations, Elementals, Fey, and Oozes naturally with their CB. Thoughts? Something not fitting or missing?

Also, instead of it being a soulmeld, It's going to be an [Incarnum] feat. I think that'll work out better in the long-run. any glaring problems that might creep up?

Spirit Shaman is probably the one class that doesn't need to be touched, as its 'companion' doesn't really do anything...

So let's say there's 5 categories for scaling powers/abilities/etc of the companions.
1. "Ally" - This is for rangers, druids, hexblades & the Wild Cohort feat
2. "Pet" - This is for wizards, sorcerers, dread necromancers, & the Obtain Familiar feat
3. "Mounts" - This is for Paladins, Knights, Healers & possibly a "Warbeast Training" feat.
4. "Guardians" - This is for Artificers & the Psicrystal Affinity feat.
5. "" - This would be for the Incarnum Companion feat.

Does that sound about right? Should Incarnum Companion be a feat that makes your companion infused with Incarnum (So a second-tier feat, like Dragon companion?)

What about other sub-types? I'm thinking Outsiders start with extraplanar and can get native via an ability from a list. But what about alignment or elemental subtypes? I think I'll nix the following subtypes as being available - Angel, Archon, Reptilian, Draconic.

Swarm and Incorpreal might make it in as abilities, but would they be too good? Shapechanger makes sense as an ability to me, too, although it might get cut. I'm thinking of making your CB immune to form-changing effects. Is that too good?

I'm going to go over a list of feats soon and decide which ones will need to be cut, which ones can be left in, and which ones need to be revamped under this system.

[veekie]

Well, I'm thinking there might be one step higher than Animal Companion, Primary class feature high(where spellcasting sits on most casting class). Presuming you have a class like that of course.

The feats then, could either grant you a new companion, or 'upgrade' your pets one grade or so.

Subtype wise, I think we can allow subtypes with benefits attached, as long as we cost the whole subtype package as if you bought the benefits individually(e.g. angel would cost the aura, the resistances, the telepathy, etc). At the right level, all these can fit in.

Nonabilities, Swarms and Incorporeals face different problems though, they function differently enough from regular creatures that stuff that would augment them might not do jack for regular creatures, and vice versa. Might need to make them their own menus.

[AfterCrescent]

I wasn't ranking them, just numbering them.  The whole idea is that an "Ally" CB shouldn't be inherently 'better' than a "Guardian." They should just have a different chassis and available abilities. Variety among the types is my goal, not an arching power level.

I don't plan (at this moment) on building a class like that, but if the system works, it should be relatively easy to do, right?

I think we're on the same page with the feats. I think there will be 4 or 5 (again, still not sure of the number at this moment, just throwing out ideas) feats that grant companions. I'm tossing up whether to grant the companion as an X of your Character level (arguably more powerful than the class feature version) or to grant it as an X of your CL-3, or even to say Choose one of your classes, you gain it as an X of that class level + any PrCs that advance that class's main feature (+1 level of existing class feature/spellcasting/initiator/etc)...

The other feats (Dragon, Magical, Incarnum, etc) will be "upgrades." They'll change the type and either move the companion to new menus, or just open new menus to be chosen from.

As to the subtypes of Archon, Angel, Baatezu, etc. I think those could be viable with proper pricing, but then we open the door to menu selection requirements, which part of me wants to avoid since that just further complicates a complicated project. Or do you think menu selection requirements are almost necessary?

The draconic subtype has to go, though. It's like cheating in the dragon feat. I guess you could take the feat and keep your companion's type and give it the draconic subtype, if you want. But would anyone actually do that?

Swarms and Incorporeals face different problems though, they function differently enough from regular creatures that stuff that would augment them might not do jack for regular creatures, and vice versa. Might need to make them their own menus.

How so? I mean I agree that swarms & incorporeal creatures function differently in combat, but why would certain abilities work for them and not others, or vice versa? I mean wouldn't they just be in the same boat as high power subtypes like Angel?

Speaking of non-abilities, though, I want to try to avoid them as much as possible, since they're inherently retarded.  Obviously that's impossible for somethings, though, without rebalancing the whole system (and I don't have time for that ).  Mindless Vermin/Oozes will be given intelligence scores as companions. I figure the bond between PC & CB is enough to explain that. All creatures have Wis/Cha, so that's simple. Str exists in everything but incorpreal creatures (so we can leave it in and say these CB have str scores, which simplifies ghost touch crap and the ethereal plane, etc).  The only issue I'm seeing is with Con, which Constructs & Undead don't have.  So that'll need some fixing somehow...

[veekie]

Ah, I see.
And well, Menus might not be strictly speaking necessary, but there really isn't many easy ways to handle the acquisition of multiple power sets.

Swarms mainly skip the whole attack roll step, and they inflict 'swarm damage'. So, stuff geared towards augmenting regular critters(e.g. extra natural weapon, improved accuracy, improved damage, size increases(particularly size, as theres Swarm Area, and swarm component size, the latter of which when increased, makes the swarm weaker) etc) might not quite work as intended, while stuff made specifically for swarms(e.g. swarm area increase, abilities that affect creatures within the critter's space), is of limited function for regular creatures. And of course, swarms of certain size components are outright immune to some varieties of damage, which probably requires it's own Size costings.

Incorporeals again, have similar issues, with physical natural attacks and stuff, some may not work properly, though it's not as bad as swarms.

As for the Con thing, hell, give the constructs and undead the score anyway, and then just buy the immunities/weaknesses package as part of the Contruct/Undead deal. See Warforged for possible construct implementation.

I could see Alternate Form abilities being pretty popular though, even if the alternate form has much much fewer abilities. Lots of monstrous pets could use a sleep mode so the guards don't freak and they are dungeon portable.

[AfterCrescent]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more of a hassle swarms are likely to be. I think for now I'll drop the swarm subtype. Doesn't really fit the 'companion beast' flavor anyways. Maybe I'll pick it up if everything else flos together at some point.

Incorporeals I don't think will be that big of an issue, because they'll still have Str scores and such, their weapons are just natural attacks. So it'll be a pimp ability.

The issue with Warforged is they have the Living Construct subtype. I mean I guess I'd be okay with giving constructs the living construct subtype. It wouldn't be too terrible. Allow some of the immunities that are taken away as abilities to gain back and everything works out, right?

It doesn't work so prettily for Undead though. There's no 'living-undeath' subtype.

Okay so some design concepts I'd like feedback on.

1. What to do about undead and the non-Con score? Do we create a pseudo-con score? Give them a Con score? what?

2. Should Rangers/anyone have lower-level companions than another class? Like Ranger/Druid or Dread Necro/Wiz?

3. Should classes be restricted to a certain chassis, or should they be able to select from 2-3, or have access to everything? Where's the limit?

[veekie]

RE: Swarms, well I think they CAN be done, but they'd need their own tables and a couple of swarm specific abilities. Pretty neat to have a druid with an insect swarm companion, for example.
Or we could handle them like oozes instead, with Engulf attacks, resistances etc, but otherwise functionally a solid creature. That would drastically reduce the complications.

Give them a Living Undead subtype and throw the con score back in. It worked for constructs, it oughta work for undead too.

Rangers...well, I figure, seeing as the Druid has spellcasting, they probably can get away with actually having a full strength usable companion along. Multiclassed companions need to statistically stay relevant, that is to say, HD at least, must keep pace. So for things like Dread Necro5/Wiz10, you'd have the HD of a 15th level familiar companion, but only as many special abilities as a 10th level one.Since companions are already weaker than the party, hitting them in the HD might be overkill.

Limitations...I think most classes can do with 2-3 of the options, case by case basis.

[AfterCrescent]

The swarm change would alter the entire subtype. It might be doable, but I'd rather focus on the core things for now. A swarm of bees isn't really very 'companion-y'... Although maybe it could be? I dunno. I'll worry about it later

I hereby nominate you to design a living undead subtype. Get to work.

I agree that multiclass companions need to be relevant. But not if you abandon the class that powers it.
For example:
1. DN 5/Wiz 10 - Both offer a CB, and let's say they both offer the same chassis. So you have two options.
   A) Get two companions, one being the 5th level CB from DN, the other being the 10th from Wiz (bad option, obviously. But maybe useful in certain builds?
   B) Give your companion the same basic stats/etc of the 15th level chassis you have access to, but for abilities, you get the menus from 5 DN and 10 Wiz. So you may have a couple more abilities, but you'll have somewhat weaker ones.

2. DN 5/Fighter 10 - Fighter doesn't have anything to do with DN, so unless you take a feat, you're stuck with a level 5 CB (maybe not worth getting it at all, but who knows?)

3. DN 5/Druid 10 - Each of these classes will have a different chassis, so you'll end up with 2 CB, one level 5 and one 10. This makes Arcane Heirophant still viable, as it'll combine the chassis and make your CB more useful.

4. DN 5/Duskblade 10 - This is the trickiest one, and the one I'm least sure of how to handle. I want to lump it in fighter, but part of me thinks it should fit in your above example where it gets the chassis of 15th level, due to Arcane casting, but only level 5 abilities.

We have...
*Arcane Casting
*Divine Casting
*Initiator Level
*Meldshaper Level
*None of the above

Did I leave anything out? Knight/Paladin/Ranger would probably be in the last group. We could tie each companion's chassis to their 'level' in the above, and their abilities to the specific class. So Dread Necro 5/Duskblade 10 would have a 15th Arcane chassis, but only 5 DN abilities. But a Ranger 6/Fighter9 would have a 15 companion chassis and 6 ranger levels for abilities.

Does that make sense? Overly complicated?

[veekie]

[Sinfire Titan]

In addition to the above, I think Incarnum should have access to Abberations, Elementals, Fey, and Oozes naturally with their CB. Thoughts? Something not fitting or missing?

Outsiders are the Incarnate's thing too, and I can see an NG Incarnate wanting a Celestial cohort or similar. Incarnum Dragons too, but those are more Awesome But Impractical than anything (save for Mounts).

Also, instead of it being a soulmeld, It's going to be an [Incarnum] feat. I think that'll work out better in the long-run. any glaring problems that might creep up?

So let's say there's 5 categories for scaling powers/abilities/etc of the companions.
1. "Ally" - This is for rangers, druids, hexblades & the Wild Cohort feat
2. "Pet" - This is for wizards, sorcerers, dread necromancers, & the Obtain Familiar feat
3. "Mounts" - This is for Paladins, Knights, Healers & possibly a "Warbeast Training" feat.
4. "Guardians" - This is for Artificers & the Psicrystal Affinity feat.
5. "" - This would be for the Incarnum Companion feat.

Does that sound about right? Should Incarnum Companion be a feat that makes your companion infused with Incarnum (So a second-tier feat, like Dragon companion?)

I'd put the Incarnum one in Ally too, seeing as most meldshapers are combat-oriented (the ones that aren't are Skill Monkeys who could use a Guardian and the Blaster builds, which would like a Pet). I know a Totemist would love it if he had a companion like that.

The swarm change would alter the entire subtype. It might be doable, but I'd rather focus on the core things for now. A swarm of bees isn't really very 'companion-y'... Although maybe it could be? I dunno. I'll worry about it later.

Bees? Awww fuck...