Author Topic: Possible Shapechange change.  (Read 1168 times)

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Hallack

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Possible Shapechange change.
« on: October 22, 2009, 06:36:08 PM »
So was thinking about ways to limit some of the brokeness of shapechange for my game without ruining the spell or banning it.

A thought I had was to add the following to shapechange and similar effects:

When assuming a form which grants abilities of x/day those abilities are considered used upon taking the form.

I've not fully thought out the ins and outs of this change and figure the critical eyes here would be a good plays to get pros and cons of the idea.

Basically it only limits some of the spell likes and SU abilities critters grant.  Bone devil would still be able to Wall of Ice every round and other forms that don't have a limit on thier abilites would not have those effected but things like getting spells from solar form or wishes as an efreet would be out.

Thoughts?
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RobbyPants

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Re: Possible Shapechange change.
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 10:09:58 AM »
It does help in that regard.

One of the pain-in-the-butt things about Shapechange/Polymorph is that they encourage the player to dumpster dive through ten books to find the best form.

Another thing is that these spells all key off of monster Hit Dice, which is a notoriously bad metric for measuring power.  Challenge Rating, while not perfect, is better.  I remember a version Polymorph that K created, and you could assume a creature of max CR equal to your Caster Level - 3.  Subtracting three is important because a creature of equal CR to the party is in theory a good challenge for a party of four people.  I have know idea how it works out in play.  I've never play tested it myself.
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Hallack

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Re: Possible Shapechange change.
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 11:05:22 AM »
CR certainly does seem to be a bit better metric than HD.  I may consider testing the CR-3 idea.  Initially in the campaign it will only really be an issue for possible NPC's.  But I'd rather get changes in place early so players know the rules by which we play.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Possible Shapechange change.
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 11:19:53 AM »
I wish I could find a link of their proposed rule.  It was more complicated than simply gearing it off of CR.  It also involved literally replacing your character with that monster straight out of the book, but the monster had your personality and alignment.  If the monster took enough HP damage to die, the spell ended.  When the spell ended, you took an equal amount of damage as the monster took during the spell.  This may or may not kill you based on the difference of HP between you and the monster in question.  It was supposed to speed things up in terms of recalculating all of your freaking stats.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: Possible Shapechange change.
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 11:42:29 AM »
Tome Downloads

There you go, Robby. You have to download the Tome PDF, but it has their proposed modified polymorph rules in it. ;)
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RobbyPants

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Re: Possible Shapechange change.
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 12:06:21 PM »
Thanks.  I already have the PDF, but I didn't know that was included in the Tomes.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]