[SWSE] Let's have a general Saga Edition thread, ok?

[Negative Zero]

Wait, huh? How do you take a level in Jedi as a Droid? Isn't that expressly forbidden?

[A Man In Black]

Wait, huh? How do you take a level in Jedi as a Droid? Isn't that expressly forbidden?

Nope. Base classes have no prereqs. They even have example NPC Jedi droids in one of the books (maybe the KOTOR sourcebook?), to represent droids who are trained in Jedi fighting styles or some BS.

[j0lt]

Wait, huh? How do you take a level in Jedi as a Droid? Isn't that expressly forbidden?

Saga's class system is far more flexible than D&D's.  Just because you take a level in the Jedi class doesn't mean you're a Jedi.  Droids cannot use the force, that's the only restriction.

[Negative Zero]

I was mostly referring to the line "You are 1st level in one heroic class of your choice. You cannot choose the Jedi class." line on page 186, but I guess that's only for starting level.

[j0lt]

I was mostly referring to the line "You are 1st level in one heroic class of your choice. You cannot choose the Jedi class." line on page 186, but I guess that's only for starting level.

Ahh yeah, that would be because the class automatically grants you the Force Sensitivity feat, which droids can't get.  I was actually thinking about playing a Jedi Training Droid for a character.  He'd have mainly been Soldier/Jedi classwise, but you're right, he'd have to start in another class and then dip into Jedi.

[Ed-Zero]

So whats the strongest/most optimized build that's possible? Droid or otherwise.. with the Scavenger book that came out there must be something. There's also got to be a way to break the 4 attacks limit that I keep seeing everywhere.

[Emy]

So whats the strongest/most optimized build that's possible? Droid or otherwise.. with the Scavenger book that came out there must be something. There's also got to be a way to break the 4 attacks limit that I keep seeing everywhere.

I don't have Scavenger's Guide to Droids yet, but the most attacks that you can get, as far as I know, comes from this Jedi combo: (Unless you count starship combat, where a single ship can make a truly mind-boggling number of attacks, like a heavy freighter covered in weapons.)

Jedi with the Tempered Aggression [Lightsaber Form, Dark Side] power and the Fortune's Favor scoundrel talent. As long as you roll well enough on your UtF and attacks and have Tempered Aggression uses left, you can keep it up. Make an attack that is always critical -> if it hits, get another standard action, which you can use to make another attack of the same type.

Improvements to the basic form of the combo: Anything that grants attack or UtF rerolls (viz. Force Power Adept, Embrace the Dark Side, Juyo, Dark Side Adept, Dark Side Master), anything that grants attack bonuses or damage bonuses (there are a lot of options here, eg. Attune Weapon or Manifest Guardian Spirit), anything that grants UtF bonuses (viz. Skill Focus, Dark Side Energy Armor created with Sith Alchemy, high Cha, or Manifest Guardian Spirit.)

Oh, and Jedi Master Serenity + Fringe Savant (which I can't believe I didn't mention in the OP) never, never hurts, but Jedi Masters are generally not supposed to throw Dark Side powers around like confetti.

[A Man In Black]

Jedi with the Tempered Aggression [Lightsaber Form, Dark Side] power and the Fortune's Favor scoundrel talent. As long as you roll well enough on your UtF and attacks and have Tempered Aggression uses left, you can keep it up. Make an attack that is always critical -> if it hits, get another standard action, which you can use to make another attack of the same type.

This optimization doesn't get mentioned much because it's generally considered impractical. Barring an evil game, maxing out your DS points turns you into an NPC.

[Ed-Zero]

So is that pretty much it for the entire system? I've also seen stuff about gun users doing 12d6 damage (sorry if i'm not too accurate in this, i'm slowly getting into the system)

[Shadowhunter]

Well, I don't know if this is as optimized as it could be, since I'm more of a PO than a TO, but I'm rather proud of this gunslinger:

Character
[spoiler]Human Soldier 8/Elite Trooper 3/Gunslinger 9

Str:13   +1
Dex:17   +5
Con:14   +4
Int:10
Wis:10
Cha:8


Trained in: Endurance, Initiative, Perception

1 Soldier:[Mercenary Tree - Dirty Fighting], Point Blank Shot, Quick Draw, AP(light,Medium), WP(pistols, Rifles, Simple weapons)
2 Soldier: Precise Shot
3 Soldier:[Weapon Specialist Tree - Devastating Attack], Weapon Focus (pistols)
4 Soldier: Dual Weapon Mastery I
5 Soldier:[Mercenary Tree - Ruthless]
6 Soldier: Double Attack (pistols), Dual Weapon Mastery II
7 Soldier:[Weapon Specialist Tree - Weapon Specialization]
8 Gunslinger:[Gunslinger Tree - Debilitating Shot]
9 Soldier: Martial Arts I, Savage Attack (pistols)
10 Elite Trooper:[Weapon Master Tree - Greater Weapon Focus], delay damage
11 Elite Trooper:Damage Reduction 1
12 Elite Trooper:[Weapon Master Tree - Greater Devastating Attack] , Dual Weapon Mastery III
13 Gunslinger: Trusty Sidearm +1
14 Gunslinger:[Gunslinger Tree - Multiattack Proficiency (pistols)]
15 Gunslinger: Trusty Sidearm +2, Triple Attack (pistols)
16 Gunslinger:[Gunslinger Tree - Multiattack Proficiency (pistols)]
17 Gunslinger: Trusty Sidearm +3
18 Gunslinger:[Gunslinger Tree - Multiattack Proficiency (pistols)], Attack Combo (Ranged)
19 Gunslinger:Trusty Sidearm +4
20 Gunslinger:[Gunslinger Tree - Multiattack Proficiency (pistols)][/spoiler]

Attack pattern and damage
[spoiler]AB:20+6+2-2-1= 25
Enough to hit pretty much anyone except Darth Vader on an average roll.
If you got a Inspiring Noble in your team, it gets even better.

Dirty Fighting + Greater Devastating Attack: Targets Threshold is at -12 against these attacks.

Specific Equipment:
2 Heavy Blaster Pistols with the upgrade that gives you -1 to hit but +1 damage per die.

Damage First Shot:
3d8+10+2+4+3+(2)

3d8 base damage.
10 heroic.
2 is Weapon Spec.
4 is Trusty Sidearm
3 is the upgrade
(2) is Ruthless if the other damage is enough to break threshold.

Second:
4d8+10+2+4+4+4

Savage Attack kicks in after the first hit, increase damage by 1 die. Upgrade also then increase by 1 point.
Ruthless stack, so now it provides 4 points.

Third:
5d8+10+2+4+5+6

Attack Combo (ranged) kicks in if the first two attacks hit. Add another die, the extra point from the upgrade and Ruthless again.

Fourth:
5d8+10+2+4+5+8
Ruthless.

17d8+40+8+16+17+20.

That average of 177,5 damage on a single target.
[/spoiler]


Sure, the target could have a monstrous threshold or your attacks could miss or not enough hit to activate some combinations.
But I still think it's good.

[Emy]

This optimization doesn't get mentioned much because it's generally considered impractical. Barring an evil game, maxing out your DS points turns you into an NPC.

You can remove the Dark Side descriptor if you like, by taking Vaapad, Many Shades of the Force, or similar.

It's still not practical because of the (ever-increasing) number of rolls you need to hit, but I was just going for most attacks because of this sentence:

There's also got to be a way to break the 4 attacks limit that I keep seeing everywhere.

[Alastar]

Well, I don't know how optimal this is, but this is my character sheet in my core+starships of the galaxy SE game.

Drakon
Trandoshan Sith
Jedi 7/Soldier 1/Sith apprentice 9/Sith Lord 3

Talents:
Block
Deflect
Redirect
Force Intuition
Armor mastery
Improved Armor Mastery
Form I (shee sho I think, -2 to iterative UTF checks to block and deflect)
Multi attack Profiency x 4(thing that lets you reduce your multiattacks penalty by -2 by talent)

Stats
Str: 22 (14 base+4 by levels+2 race+2 Corellian Power suit)
Dex: 10
Con: 12
Int: 8
Wis: 14 (13 base+ 1 level)
Cha: 19 (14 base +5 level)

Defenses:
Ref: 39 (20 levels+3 sith lord+1 trandoshan +4 improved armored defense, +1 Improved Defenses)
Fort: 35 (20 levels+3 sith lord, +1 cons, +1 improved defenses)
Will: 36 (20 levels+3 sith lord +1 improved defenses, +2 wis)


Attack: +28 (2d8+24) (+1/+2 lightsaber from that tech mod feat in starships of the galaxy)
Triple Strike: +26/+26/+26 (2d8+24)

UTF: 24

and some force powers and feats, most relevant are there, don<t feel like typing much, I think it's decent.

[Korwin]

So whats the strongest/most optimized build that's possible? Droid or otherwise.. with the Scavenger book that came out there must be something. There's also got to be a way to break the 4 attacks limit that I keep seeing everywhere.

I would argue, the strongest is not the one with the most attacks, but the one who is immortal...
But its an Dark Side build...

[Emy]

So whats the strongest/most optimized build that's possible? Droid or otherwise.. with the Scavenger book that came out there must be something. There's also got to be a way to break the 4 attacks limit that I keep seeing everywhere.

I would argue, the strongest is not the one with the most attacks, but the one who is immortal...
But its an Dark Side build...

An immortal Dark Side build without mention of Transfer Essence? For shame!

Sith Lord: Hm... I need a new... body...
Minion: Are we going to another jungle planet? Last time, the mosquitoes-
Sith Lord: No! I see an ocean... of sand. A desert. I want a Krayt dragon.
Minion: Sure, like we'll be able to incapacitate one of those.
Sith Lord: I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[Korwin]

Its there in the build:

03. Jedi 1 - Transfer Essence Lightsaber Proficiency, Force Training, 3

With Bring of Death, Sith Alchemy, Cause Mutation, Sith Alchemy Specialist...
 

[Emy]

Its there in the build:

03. Jedi 1 - Transfer Essence Lightsaber Proficiency, Force Training, 3

With Bring of Death, Sith Alchemy, Cause Mutation, Sith Alchemy Specialist...
 

I swear I searched for it with the ol' Ctrl-F, but it must have been hidden in one of your many spoiler tags. I recommend not nesting so many of them. For example, your "Mini Sample Gungan:" spoiler block is within the "Melee Condition Dropper - ignore failed (IMHO)" spoiler block, which is within the "Sith Protector" spoiler block, which is within the "Traditional Sith Lord" spoiler block. I tried to open up everything when searching, but suppose I missed one or two.

edit: oh I see it's the one near the bottom, which says "I am Immortal" in big text. Whoops!

[Mushroom Ninja]

Rambling thoughts on Leader-types:
Leaders are my favorite class type in 4e, and I've been thinking about what can be done with them in SWSE.  Action granting stands out immediately as a possible strategy.  If you have both Trust and Impel Ally II, you can grant the team's beatstick two extra beatstickings each round.  The possibilities for abuse of Officer's Share Talent also intrigue me.  Giving 5 allies (or cheap droids you've bought for the purpose) a powerful talent for the encounter seems pretty cool.  Unfortunately, you can't grant Trust or Impel Ally so no giant wave of extra actions, but there has to be something cool we can do with it.  I'm AFB right now, but assault tactics comes to mind as a possibility -- +6d6 damage to all allies attacking the target is nifty.  Anyone got some ideas on how to (ab)use this?

[Shadowhunter]

I've been pressganged into DM'ing a SWSE adventure and I can't for the life of me find any Wealth By Level.
They're going to start at lvl 5, and beside the extra credits the Zeltron Noble will gain from the Wealthy-talent, I have no idea what they should have.

Does anyone know?

[Mushroom Ninja]

I've been pressganged into DM'ing a SWSE adventure and I can't for the life of me find any Wealth By Level.
They're going to start at lvl 5, and beside the extra credits the Zeltron Noble will gain from the Wealthy-talent, I have no idea what they should have.

Does anyone know?

For some reason WotC never decided to grace us with a WBL table.  Apparently we are not worthy.

[Unbeliever]

I'm in the same boat -- we're starting at 6th level.  I think this depends a lot on what type of SW game you want to run.  Personally, I'm not that interested in a very wealth motivated one -- how many times to do we see Luke and Han stripping Stormtroopers of their really expensive armor, which it would seem the Rebellion at least would find handy?  So, I will probably just tell my players to be reasonable and give them an idea of what that means w/ regards to equipment.  If you decide to go the other way and make wealth important, well ... I don't know, probably look around and see what they can buy.  I think a lot of the pricing, especially of ships, in SWSE is essentially random, so be warned about that.  And, the other thing that seems potentially game-breaking is modified equipment.  

EDIT:  oh, and WOTC's support of Saga, frankly, sucks.  It's a shame, given that Star Wars is such an unpopular and unknown genre and all.  And, Saga strikes me as probably their overall best and most well-put together system.  Bastards.