Author Topic: Monk as Incarnum Class?  (Read 2399 times)

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bkdubs123

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Monk as Incarnum Class?
« on: October 08, 2009, 05:36:41 AM »
I really, really like the flavor of Incarnum. While I also enjoy some of the mechanics, I find it too focused on "fake items" for my tastes. I'd have probably made the Soulmelds a minor subsystem of Incarnum myself and use class features and feats to do the bulk of Essentia investing work.

Anyway, I was looking at the Incandescent Champion (awesome name by the way) and got to thinking that all this "soul power" mumbo jumbo might be a good way to explain a Monk's rise to power. Through the perfection, and subsequent weaponizing, of his own soul a Monk is able to walk into battle wearing no armor, wielding no manufactured weapons, and employ supernatural powers that are an extension of his Iron Will and Eternal Soul.

How might we rewrite the Monk in such a way that it doesn't come out as a Meldshaper, but utilizes Essentia in a very major way? Further, might other classes such as the Paladin, or even the Cleric be reimagined as Essentia based, though strictly not Meldshapers?

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 12:57:20 PM »
I'm actually way ahead of you (5 days or so), except that I'm making it a full-fledged Meldshaper (Flurry of Blows becomes a Soulmeld, etc). The mechanics for the class itself are complete, I just need to finish the class's fluff and soulmelds.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 01:40:00 PM »
I'm actually way ahead of you (5 days or so), except that I'm making it a full-fledged Meldshaper (Flurry of Blows becomes a Soulmeld, etc). The mechanics for the class itself are complete, I just need to finish the class's fluff and soulmelds.

While that doesn't surprise me, it is also not the point. What I don't like about Incarnum is the soulmeld part of the system. I love the souls-as-power flavor, and the very fluid acquisition and reassignment of Essentia, however I don't like the game forcing items onto my characters, and I don't like Incarnum's "solution" which provides me with "nonitems" made of my soul energy which take up item slots. Frankly, forging items from my soul is cool, but seems like a really small portion of what one ought to be able to do if they could harness soul energy as a power source.

For the Monk, a class based on carrying as little material property as possible, using its soul to substitute for material possessions seems, at least to me, to be a cheap trick. How can Flurry of Blows, an extraordinary expression of speed and skill, be converted into a Hands slot soul-constructed "object?" Seems very contrary. Bloodwar Gauntlets vs Flurry of Blows. One makes sense as a metaphysical object, the other is obviously an action.

Risada

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 01:44:15 PM »
bkdubs, you could always improve some of the monk's abilities by investing essentia... say, an ability grants a bonus to attack and damage rolls on all unarmed strikes based on the essentia invested, tweak abundant step so it works based on essentia invested, add essentia invested on how much hit points wholeness of body heals you... things like that  :smirk

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 02:10:17 PM »
While that doesn't surprise me, it is also not the point. What I don't like about Incarnum is the soulmeld part of the system. I love the souls-as-power flavor, and the very fluid acquisition and reassignment of Essentia, however I don't like the game forcing items onto my characters, and I don't like Incarnum's "solution" which provides me with "nonitems" made of my soul energy which take up item slots. Frankly, forging items from my soul is cool, but seems like a really small portion of what one ought to be able to do if they could harness soul energy as a power source.

For the Monk, a class based on carrying as little material property as possible, using its soul to substitute for material possessions seems, at least to me, to be a cheap trick. How can Flurry of Blows, an extraordinary expression of speed and skill, be converted into a Hands slot soul-constructed "object?" Seems very contrary. Bloodwar Gauntlets vs Flurry of Blows. One makes sense as a metaphysical object, the other is obviously an action.

That's why I'm leaving them metaphysical, actually. The fluff is a little different (hence the reason I haven't gotten around to it). I'm using the Incarnum mechanics, but not the flavor of the soulmelds. Monk wants slow fall? He can get it with a soulmeld, and make it decent with essentia. Monk decides he wants Decisive Strike over Flurry for a day? He just doesn't shape the soulmeld that grants Flurry and shapes the one that grants Decisive Strike. They don't appear as items, they're concepts that he turns into abilities by making them into soulmelds.

At most, the soulmelds will be a glow around that slot, that's it (save for the few like the Impulse Boots, which will be borrowed from other meldshaper lists).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

woodenbandman

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 07:34:25 PM »
Have you looked at the Umbral Disciple prestige class? I always thought that that was what a true "ninja" should be: utilizing his Ki to actually do cool stuff, like hide while being observed, and suchlike. With proper feat investments he can even fly a little like Crouching Tiger: Hidden Dragon.

If you're talking about stuff like that, I'd play it. Make the monk based on that. Stunning fist stays, Slow Fall can be essentia based and scale: 1 essentia = featherfall, 2 = water walk, 3 = air walk, 4 = fly. Various "body" things can be essentia based. DR equal to essentia invested x a number, with scaling hardness, plus some immunities. AC bonus obviously essentia based.


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Soulmeld Ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 09:08:34 PM »
As I'm going the full meldshaper route with this fix, I've kinda come across a snag...


I have no idea what soulmelds to give this class. I want to make new ones, but I can't come up with any names or ideas for some of them. My goal is 7 soulmelds for each chakra slot; 4 that all Monks can use, and then 3 that are restricted access. I've been sifting through the PrCs and ACFs, but haven't found much that I want to use.

The idea is that there are three styles of Monk, each with their own meldshaping abilities (all three share a universal meld list, but get access to special soulmelds based on style). I know that from a flavor standpoint it doesn't make much sense to have them be a meldshaper class, seeing as Dispel Magic effectively makes them useless for a few rounds, but its the way I want to roll with this.

Style 1 is a Tank.
Style 2 is a "Blaster".
Style 3 is traditional.

Here's a breakdown of what I've got:

Crown 4 total
[spoiler]The Crystal Helm. Restricted
A named Soulmeld, but with no effect so far (probably going to use a class feature for this one). Universal
A Soulmeld that grants a +2 Armor bonus to AC, +2/essentia. Every time you get hit, essentia gets removed from the soulmeld until you're at the base value. May want to tweak this one. Universal
A Soulmeld that grants Deflect Arrows, and can be improved with Essentia. Because the original ability sucks. Restricted
[/spoiler]

Feet 3 total
[spoiler]The Impulse Boots Universal
A soulmeld that grants the Monk's speed bonus. Chakra binds will grant alternate movement forms and Dimension Step. Universal
A Soulmeld that restricts enemy movement to help the Monk be a tank replacement. Restricted[/spoiler]

Hands 4 total
[spoiler]A soulmeld that grants Energy damage on unarmed strikes (1dX, haven't decided yet) 1/round. Universal
A soulmeld that grants Stunning Fist/Decisive Strike. Restricted
A Soulmeld that grants Flurry of Blows. Restricted
A soulmeld that grants a ranged version of Flurry of Blows, but can't attack the same target twice in one round. Restricted[/spoiler]

Arms 3 total
[spoiler]Nothing except for the last three in the Hands section.[/spoiler]

Brow 2 total
[spoiler]A named soulmeld with no effects so far. Not sure here. Universal
A soulmeld that grants Darkvision. Chakra Binds will grant Ghost Step abilities ala Ninja, but not as sucky. Restricted[/spoiler]

Shoulders 2 total
[spoiler]A named soulmeld with no effects so far. Again, don't know. Universal
A Soulmeld that acts like Lightning Mace. Not sure if I want this to stay or to be a different effect. Restricted[/spoiler]

Throat 2 total
[spoiler]A Soulmeld that adds elemental damage to attacks.Universal
The Apparition Ribbon. Restricted[/spoiler]

Waist 2 total
[spoiler]The soulmeld that grants Darkvision from above.
The Soulmeld that grants the speed bonus from above.[/spoiler]

Heart 5 total
[spoiler]A soulmeld that grants Tumble and Hide bonuses. Universal
The Spellward Shirt. Universal
A Soulmeld that acts like a fusion of Wholeness of Body, the Apparition Ribbon's Throat Bind, and the Vitality Belt. Universal
The soulmeld that restricts enemy movement from above.
A Smite-esque soulmeld. Restricted[/spoiler]

Soul 5 total
[spoiler]The Soulmeld that grants the Armor bonus to AC from above.
A named soulmeld with no abilities so far. Universal
The Wholeness of Body soulmeld from above.
The Fellmist Robe. Restricted
A Soulmeld that lets you reroll damage on one attack every 10 rounds. Essentia reduces the wait time. Restricted[/spoiler]


Any ideas?


[spoiler][/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 04:14:07 AM »
Cheesy kung-fu names? "X of the Y" format names
Hmm, I best get a closer look at the Incarnum stuff after work. This looks interesting.
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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 12:21:04 PM »
Cheesy kung-fu names? "X of the Y" format names
Hmm, I best get a closer look at the Incarnum stuff after work. This looks interesting.

One of the themes for a group of their soulmelds is Chess. The ones that are giving me trouble with that theme are the Queen, Pawn, and Bishop. The Knight is movement-related, the King is Defense related, the Rook is attack related.


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Risada

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 01:57:57 PM »
Some random ideas that just popped out of my head:

Pawn - Endurance/reaction related?
Bishop - Perception/Insight related?
Queen - Leadership/support related?

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Re: Monk as Incarnum Class?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 02:12:52 PM »
Some random ideas that just popped out of my head:

Pawn - Endurance/reaction related?
Bishop - Perception/Insight related?
Queen - Leadership/support related?
That would help their expanded skills quite nicely. Good idea.


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