Handeling the WLD the CO way

[RobbyPants]

No BFC sounds pretty arbitrary, and poorly defined (and dumb... "Mages are supposed to blast stuff" sounds like the reasoning...). Does that include Glitterdust? Sleet Storm? Evard's Black Tentacles? Spiked-chain fighters? Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion?

No BFC spells.  Also, no taking 10/20, per the authors' directives.

How exactly does the "not taking 10 or 20" rule work?  Are you only allowed one search per trap?  Assuming you're not in a hurry, is it an option to try something like, 20 searches?  I know this wouldn't work for Disable Device because you can set off the trap with a roll five lower than the DC.

And I am curious about the BFC rule too.  As PhaedrusXY mentioned, what exactly is included in that?  Is it really that broadly defined?

____

So, yeah, it sounds like just toughing out the traps works better.  Weird.

[PhaedrusXY]

Wow... did Gary Gygax write this mod from the grave or something? Jesus Christ... A "trap" with no search DC, which curses you for a number of days even if you make the saving throw? 

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I thought everyone would've gotten drawn into the trainwreck that the last WLD thread devolved into.

There is also a chart to go by that has a random encounter possibility every HOUR (thougvh in practice you do get periods of uninteruppted rest ) also randomly dispersed are "safe" rooms where technically you can stay indefinatly.

Hmm a 'new' user who knows of the last thread...  

But thats the crux of it. If you can indefinately stay in a safe room (and not just as a 1 shot 'gimme') you should all just play full casters and do the usual god-build thing. Unfortunately that tends to be the CO answer. However if you [um try] to nerf things where that's not possible (no sleep 4 u!) things get interesting.

I already have a tier 5 version of this up for all you smelly goblin lovers   And as you can see I have a clear deliniation of exactly which of the rules I am using. Even with that MASSIVE specificity, its still devolved into a BFC debate (even though I really don't care either way).

[Alastar]

Eh, traps aren't that much of a problem, the tinker/artificier in my group of WLD is easily handlind them all, and evasion saves him when he fails the disable device.

They also lug a couple of undead with them and have them open the door just in case.

Seriously, while area A is crazy difficult ( I mean, you can take a wrong turn and end up facing a level 7 wererat sorcerer at level 2)  once you get past that and into the levels 6-7, it's pretty doable.

I do have some houserules in effect though...

And the safe rooms are a boon really.  My player's use things like fallen monster clothes to make beds, stone shape and wood warp to seal the doors, and then stone shape, create water and heat metal to make themselves a hot tub while they wait out for the artificier to craft stuff or negative effects (such as the curse) to go by.

Most of the monsters in there can't open doors normally (shadows, rats, darkmantles..)  so they have no chance of opening a sealed one.

[Tohron]

I'm thinking it might help to have a "Chuck"-type speedster in the party to go racing back to the surface whenever they need anything.  Of course, since FotD was errata'd, the question becomes whether there's a viable way to implement it.

[Alastar]

you can't escape once your in it.  At all.

[Akalsaris]

How's this:

1 Crusader (tanking and healing)
1 Binder (scouting with the bird and whatever else the party needs)
1 Warblade (for IHS and general damage, probably going to take the traps too)
1 Dragonfire Adept (for some crowd control and magical damage without needing to rest much)

That group can pretty much go all day long without resting for spells, which should make things interesting.

[JaronK]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that other feature of the Binder/Anima Mage... the Malphas bird is alive and can set off traps.  Very handy.  And yes Phaedrus... the dungeon is decidedly gygaxian.

JaronK

[Alastar]

Seriously, if you're creative, resting isn't that hard!

[Havok4]

How's this:

1 Crusader (tanking and healing)
1 Binder (scouting with the bird and whatever else the party needs)
1 Warblade (for IHS and general damage, probably going to take the traps too)
1 Dragonfire Adept (for some crowd control and magical damage without needing to rest much)

That group can pretty much go all day long without resting for spells, which should make things interesting.

Go all warforged as well, so there is no need to rest ever.

[Lycanthromancer]

I say a group of 3 druids, 1 wizard.

You have animal companions to toe the line for meat shields, screw the rules (you're druids, after all) and cast web and entangle to help with battlefield control (it's not like anything prevents the wizard and druids from actually casting the spells), and when the druids summon something the wizard can charm or dominate it to get permanent minions. Animating undead and casting planar binding can also work quite well, since you can coerce whatever you bring in to 'search for traps' and fight for you.

Really, the 'restrictions' in WLD aren't even worth worrying about. They're very easily circumvented or otherwise dealt with.

[PhaedrusXY]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that other feature of the Binder/Anima Mage... the Malphas bird is alive and can set off traps.  Very handy.  And yes Phaedrus... the dungeon is decidedly gygaxian.

JaronK

The bird definitely falls under "summoning", though. Right?

And why didn't the author just say that "everyone in WLD benefits from Freedom of Movement", if he wanted no BFC at all? I mean, they already said you don't have to eat...

[Midnight_v]

Worlds Stupidest Dungeons... 

Yeah I'm kinda thinking that the whole "No BFC" is weird and undefined... and ridiculous as somone has that spell in a spell book.

... but wait... 1 of every monster? A tarrasque is in this dungeon somehow. Thats funny.
Insta-killing players with traps is pretty rediculous.
Here's what I think might work:
Take something that doesn't need to sleep... ala Warforged. (which there's not reason to be like "No sleep")
Add something that doesn't need to recharge... uhm... try" Warlocks, for example. (no I'm not saying this is optimal but hear me out.)
The idea is this... everymoster you come across gets spammed with charms/diplomacy.
You may also use things like Beguiler Binder or anything that gets charm XYZ as a ability set.

Each time you encounter monsters they join you. Make THEM walk in from of the party opening doors. . .

Also you can multiclass warlock prc to get spells you feel are relavant but you dont' have to sit and be pissed that your Dm's being a douch and keeps waking you while your sleeping to keep you from recharging your spells...
Which reminds me of something....
"You do not sleep, you do not dance, you do not laugh or cry, all you do from dusk to dusk is make the monsters die." - domniarian childrens rhyme.

 I suppose you could even play as a group of lost "Phyrexians" centuries later trying to awaken what you all to believe to be the tomb of yawgmoth or whatever.  There I even provide a story!

Though still I wonder how you get away from thinks like never being allowed to cast Wall of Gloom.
Or illusion spells that make walls appear where there were not NOT being battle field controll

[The_Mad_Linguist]

the exact wording is "spells like entangle and web are devastatingly powerful", so since they made sure the enemies don't have them, the PCs shouldn't either.

I'm assuming that means more along the lines of "spells that depend upon specific environments which are always found in dungeons.

[Midnight_v]

"devastatingly powerful" yes that is the wording... I have the book somewhere on pdf, I did play in it but my dm was like "This is stupid, there's a million empty rooms... I may as well have made this dungeon myself"
I looked at that book after that even downloaded.
So I understand what your saying...:

the exact wording is "spells like entangle and web are devastatingly powerful", so since they made sure the enemies don't have them, the PCs shouldn't either.   

But they totally didn't, and thats my point. Web is in one of the first spellbooks you find.
Not to mention there are monsters running around with such spells as a su or ex ability.
Let just deal:

3. Since the op wants this to NOT turn to a train wreck I stop now discussing how annoying this type of design or lack thereof is. Though man it irks me...
4. Deal with presented problems:
A. Potential for a-hole Dm's to never let the party rest.
Proposal: Play races that don't need to "sleep"/ Classes that don't need to rest.
Suggestion1: Warforged. Possibly elan or starelves(but even they need to "trance" or whatever")
Suggestion2: Warlock. Someone mentioned these things above now that I re-read it.

B. Gygaxian Traps: Traps that screw you over no save/activate magically or not only when living things show up.
Proposal: Take control of the inhabitants make them go first.
You may have to take something like Beguiling influence an the feat that gives you diplomancy as a class skill or whatever but diplomancy might be the answer to get off the first stage.
Summoning and BFC are outlawed... or is it that the things you summon don't leave?
 If the former then much of the low levels will be eldritch blasting things down. Baleful utterance the "unlimited shatters" spell will work pretty well also.. .
If the latter then you're going to win the game by casting summon swarm 4 times (once each) then ignoring poison
if you actually take the DR armor then the swarm will only occasionally damage you anyway. But here's the deal... The spiderswarms "Won't leave and can't open doors so you can have your party:
ready an action:
Open a door: Cast 3 spider swarms
Clost the door
Ready 4 eldritch blasts
Profitt.
This maybe one of the only times the "Dead Walk" invocation might see use. At low levels.
Most importanty a bit later: Levels in Mindbender: Enough to get Domninate monster at level 7 of the prc.
Mortalbane shots could be usefull too...

What other problems are there?

[JaronK]

The bird definitely falls under "summoning", though. Right?

That's okay, the nerf to summoning would not be a problem in this case, because the issues come up when the summoning duration ends.  Since you can keep the bird going almost indefinitely, this is not an issue.

And I wouldn't worry about resting, you just find a secret room and baracade up in it.

JaronK

[InnaBinder]

I say a group of 3 druids, 1 wizard.

You have animal companions to toe the line for meat shields, screw the rules (you're druids, after all) and cast web and entangle to help with battlefield control (it's not like anything prevents the wizard and druids from actually casting the spells), and when the druids summon something the wizard can charm or dominate it to get permanent minions. Animating undead and casting planar binding can also work quite well, since you can coerce whatever you bring in to 'search for traps' and fight for you.

Really, the 'restrictions' in WLD aren't even worth worrying about. They're very easily circumvented or otherwise dealt with.

The first time I ran a Druid in WLD, my casting entangle caused a)the spell not to function, b)me to be stunned for a round, and c)1 point WIS damage.  It pretty effectively prevented the casting.

[Midnight_v]

I say a group of 3 druids, 1 wizard.

You have animal companions to toe the line for meat shields, screw the rules (you're druids, after all) and cast web and entangle to help with battlefield control (it's not like anything prevents the wizard and druids from actually casting the spells), and when the druids summon something the wizard can charm or dominate it to get permanent minions. Animating undead and casting planar binding can also work quite well, since you can coerce whatever you bring in to 'search for traps' and fight for you.

Really, the 'restrictions' in WLD aren't even worth worrying about. They're very easily circumvented or otherwise dealt with.

The first time I ran a Druid in WLD, my casting entangle caused a)the spell not to function, b)me to be stunned for a round, and c)1 point WIS damage.  It pretty effectively prevented the casting.

Is that what they suggest? Or is that just what your dm did?

[InnaBinder]

The first time I ran a Druid in WLD, my casting entangle caused a)the spell not to function, b)me to be stunned for a round, and c)1 point WIS damage.  It pretty effectively prevented the casting.

Is that what they suggest? Or is that just what your dm did?

I cannot say for certain, as my knowledge is from the player's side of the screen.

[Alastar]

This just in from behind the DM screen!

Your DM is an asshole.

Alastar out!


Yup.... nowhere does it say that... he made it up.


AND RESTING ISNT HARD AT ALL, MOST OF THOSE THINGS DON'T EVEN HAVE HANDS TO OPEN DOORKNOBS!!!