Author Topic: Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale  (Read 1302 times)

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RobbyPants

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Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale
« on: October 05, 2009, 10:03:10 AM »
Not too long ago, I was discussing the merits of a variant VP/WP system where the idea was to allow moral-boosting effects to heal VP, as it wasn't really physical damage.  I then got to thinking that I might be able to accomplish the same thing using Non-lethal damage.  This is a very rough draft, but I'm hoping you'll help me polish it up!

The basic idea
- Through various rules, some sources of damage will partially deal non-lethal damage
- Certain moral-boosters will be able to heal non-lethal damage (such as a new bardic music ability)
- Everyone will have a "second wind" mechanic to heal some non-lethal damage



Converting lethal to non-lethal

Armor
As a combatant gets battered around in his armor, a portion of the damage is converted to non-lethal damage, representing brusing and general stamina drain.  Every time a person wearing armor takes physical damage (excluding falling, constricting, and similar types of damage), a number of points equal to the Armor bonus to AC and the Enhancement bonus (if any) is converted to non-lethal damage.  So, a suit of leather armor would convert up to two points of damage to non-lethal damage, and a suit of +2 fullplate would convert ten points.

Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, and other spells or items that grant an Armor bonus AC behave this way as well.  This does not apply to shields.

(Perhaps this should be a static percentage, like half the damage, so it scales at higher levels...)

Damage Reduction
A creature with damage reduction can convert some lethal damage to non-lethal damage from attacks that do not overcome their damage reduction.  This converts a number of points equal to their damage reduction rating, which is added to any damage converted from armor (if any).  For example: a barbarian with Damage Reduction 2/- wearing +1 Breastplate (+6 AC) would convert up to eight points of damage to non-lethal damage per attack.

This does not apply against attacks that can overcome the damage reduction.  So, a werewolf would not convert damage to nonlethal damage if attacked by silver weapons.

Energy Resistance
Any time someone with energy resistance takes damage from that type of energy, half of the damage they take is converted to non-lethal damage.

Evasion
In addition to the usual benefits, any time someone with Evasion takes damage from an effect that offers a Reflex save for half damage, half of the damage is converted to non-lethal damage.



Recovering

Second Wind
Every character gets a second wind once per day (or per encounter?).  By spending a swift action, the character can use their second wind to heal 1d6 points of non-lethal damage for each of their Hit Dice.

(Should this instead heal all non-lethal damage?)

Motivate (Diplomacy)
As a standard action, you can attempt a Diplomacy check (DC 15) to motivate your allies.  If the check succeeds, all of your allies within 30 feet heal 1d6 points of non-lethal damage per two of their Hit Dice (minimum 1d6).  If your Diplomacy check is at least 25, each target is instead healed 1d6 points per each of their Hit Dice, and if your check is at least 35, the range also increases to 60 feet.  You may use this ability once per encounter.

This is a sonic, language-dependent ability.

Boost Morale (Bardic Music)
A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use his music or poetics to heal non-lethal damage of one target within 60 feet (including the bard, himself).  As a standard action, roll a Perform check.  The target is healed an amount of non-lethal damage equal to your Perform check.  If you roll a 30 or higher, you heal half of the target's non-lethal damage, or 30 points, whichever is greater.  If you roll a 40 or higher, you heal all of the target's non-lethal damage.

This is a sonic, language-dependent ability.



Exceptions

Immune Creatures
Creatures immune to non-lethal damage do not convert damage in the ways described above.  They take lethal damage as normal.



Conclusions/Analysis

Low Levels
I figure this will have the biggest effect at low levels, really helping with both survivability and stretching healing farther (remember that when healing lethal damage, an equal amount of non-lethal damage is also healed).

High Levels
I think this might just become annoying bookkeeping at higher levels as the damage gets higher proportionately to the amount converted.  Perhaps instead of using the raw AC value, I should use a percentage based on the armor type (light, medium, or heavy).  The problem with that is it involves multiplication each time the target takes damage, and that can really slow things down.

Cinematics
I think this could be more cinematic, especially with the second wind mechanic and the Motivate use of Diplomacy.

Fresh Each Fight?
Should second wind be per day or per encounter?  I suppose it could be left up to each DM.  Per day makes it a special resource you have to ration, just like many other things.  Per-encounter means that it's a once-a-fight occurrence, but it can be used once a minute outside of combat.  So unless fights happen back to back, this means people will enter each combat with no non-lethal damage.  I don't see it as a problem, but I might want to present it as a side-bar, or something.

Martial Spirit/Crusader's Strike
Should these Crusader abilities only work on non-lethal damage?  I think it really fits the bill of not healing real wounds, but it weakens those abilities considerably.  I hate to do it.  What are your thoughts?



So, tell me what you think. :D
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 09:33:34 AM by RobbyPants »
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bkdubs123

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Re: Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 01:44:18 AM »
An interesting variant on the Armor as DR idea. I think it makes a lot of sense logically, but I agree with your own assessment of the potential problems.

To touch on just a few points:

1) Second Wind should probably not use any dice. 1d6 is more than your average Wizard's HD is worth, but only half the average Barbarian's HD. I'd support removing all nonlethal with it.

2) The same principle should probably be applied to Motivate.

3) What about Natural Armor bonuses? Deflection?

4) Immunity to Nonlethal should probably be handled slightly differently, because now it's almost a drawback.

5) With your reasoning behind coming up with this idea, Martial Spirit stance and Crusader's Strike (and similar abilities) should only remove nonlethal damage. If you're afraid that gimps them too much, boost their power/scope a bit.

RobbyPants

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Re: Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 09:33:51 AM »
1) Second Wind should probably not use any dice. 1d6 is more than your average Wizard's HD is worth, but only half the average Barbarian's HD. I'd support removing all nonlethal with it.
That might be better.  It is more consistant.


2) The same principle should probably be applied to Motivate.
Yeah.  Motivate was thought up rather quickly, somewhat as an afterthought.


3) What about Natural Armor bonuses? Deflection?
I could see that for both of those.  I have to wonder about other things like Sacred and Profane.  What is the nature of their protection?


4) Immunity to Nonlethal should probably be handled slightly differently, because now it's almost a drawback.
Yeah, it's either too good or too bad.  If I allow it to work the same for everyone, it suddenly becomes DR for them.  Maybe that's not such a huge issue anyway, though.  If everyone is assumed to get their non-lethal damage healed, then flat-out DR isn't as overpowered by comparison.

Do you have any ideas here?


5) With your reasoning behind coming up with this idea, Martial Spirit stance and Crusader's Strike (and similar abilities) should only remove nonlethal damage. If you're afraid that gimps them too much, boost their power/scope a bit.
If second wind removes all non-lethal damage, Crusader's Strike would need a boost.  I'm fine with Martial Spirit as-is.  Perhaps it could get an Initiator Level boost, or something so it scales.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

ZanKhellendros

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Re: Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 10:49:18 AM »
Second Wind and motivate should defiantly do a flat increase because of HP differences just coming up with one, the back to full isn't bad but could there be some other possibilities? A boost to the crusader's stuff sounds in order and maybe all other healers as well, I was thinking I would give clerics a spell that would allow them to refresh another characters second wind, just a thought.

 Natural Armor Deflection bonuses are a must to include. Sacred and Profane also, I always imagined they were some kind of supernaturel protection offered by some great outsider or deity, making the nature more spell like then anything.

Immunity to Nonlethal being a natural DR really doesn't sound to bad but I haven't seen it in context so couldn't say for sure.
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RobbyPants

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Re: Cinematic Non-Lethal Damage & Morale
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2009, 11:58:24 AM »
I was thinking I would give clerics a spell that would allow them to refresh another characters second wind, just a thought.
It could always piggy-back on the Restoration line of spells.  They remove fatigue, so it could make sesne to either remove non-lethal damage, or at least refresh an expended second wind (depending on how often they were granted in the first place).


Natural Armor Deflection bonuses are a must to include. Sacred and Profane also, I always imagined they were some kind of supernaturel protection offered by some great outsider or deity, making the nature more spell like then anything.
That would probably work.  It would result in monsters getting lots of nonlethal damage, but that doesn't hugely matter; it still takes the same amount of HP to drop them in the first place, and they're designed to last for one encounter anyway.  It's just a pain to split the damage each hit, which could potentially slow down game play on the DM's side.  Of course, if the DM weren't planning on healing the monster in the first place, he could just track it all as HP damage normally.  The end result would be the same.


Immunity to Nonlethal being a natural DR really doesn't sound to bad but I haven't seen it in context so couldn't say for sure.
It would effectively reduce the damage that immune creatures take, assuming they have a decent armor score.  For example, picture an ogre zombie (NA +8).  This would effectively give him DR 8/-, which is relatively potent for a CR 3 creature.

There are a few ways for PCs to become immune to nonlethal damage as well, which may or may not become an issue.  I picture a necropolatan getting a high AC to effectively give himself equal DR.  Of course, he's still ridiculously vulnerable to turning and rebuking, so it's a wash in that regard.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]