Martial Monk 6 / Titan Bloodline 3 / Ardent 2 / Ur 2 / Psychic Theurge 7

[awaken DM golem]

Thinking out loud here.

Martial Monk is the Fighter Feats variant from Dragon.
Tsuyo spotted some of the more borkt combos.
I just wanna use the not-quite-so-borkt picks of
unqualified for feats from the regular Fighter list.

Titan Bloodline is for the 12th level use gigantic weapons thingy.

Ardent + Ur + PT = Div 9s, throw in Psiotheurgist to get a few Psi 9s
and Tashalatora to bump up the MM stuff.

Another route is to get Master Of Masks in there, so the Exotic Flurry goes nuttier with the Titan trickiery.
That might be:
MM 2 / T B 3 / Psy War 2 / Master of Masks 2 / Ardent 2 / Ur 2 / PT 7

Ideas ??

[woodenbandman]

Titan Bloodline does not actually increase your effective character level:

"Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below). " from the SRD on bloodlines.

So you could probably put more stuff in there. May I suggest 5 levels in War Mind rather than Ardent, for Sweeping Strike??

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I'll have to disagree with you there. Bloodline levels don't increase your character's level the same way a normal class level does, but they still increase your total level.  Otherwise they'd be practically free.

[Brainpiercing]

Most critically, they don't advance any abilities that are not numerically keyed to your class level. We had the discussion a while ago on the Warlock, and here it did advance EB damage. Spellcasting is not advanced, only CL.
And with that your ML will be advanced, but not your powers. I'm not sure about power points.

So you could probably put more stuff in there. May I suggest 5 levels in War Mind rather than Ardent, for Sweeping Strike??

I disagree, only Ardent offers the option to gain higher level powers with few levels dipped. However, the focus of the build may vary, I guess.

[KellKheraptis]

Slightly OT, but since it could lead to a borkt version (and I'm all about sneaking Pun-pun-ishment), what are said combos TS found?

[PhaedrusXY]

And with that your ML will be advanced, but not your powers. I'm not sure about power points.

<snip>

I disagree, only Ardent offers the option to gain higher level powers with few levels dipped. However, the focus of the build may vary, I guess.

Aren't these two statements contradictory?

[Brainpiercing]

Yeah, possibly. But I didn't invent the build .

[awaken DM golem]

I wanted Titan Bloodline for the level 12 Ginormous weapon thingy, because then a "Light" weapon can be really big.
Like a 1 armed Girl using her Surfboard as a weapon ... also because it was a topic around here recently.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/03/national/main581410.shtml
She still surfs, but I can't find a pic of her surfing 3 limbed.

The bloodline advances the Ardent's ML , the Monk's Flurry and unarmed stuff , and ~possibly some of the Master of Masks stuff (idk). PhaeXY has it right. The bloodline does not advance power points, but the Ardent gets power ("spell") levels based on ML access, not class level access. Bloodlines work like Practiced Manifester on steroids for the Ardent alone. It is expensive though, limiting the total number of powers you can manifest. A recharge set-up gets around that.

**

KellK - Tsuyo spotted the Epic Fighter feats part, and stopped there, because he thought it was obviously bork.
I don't stop. Epic Leadership is silly, and then throw in Festering Anger disease, Mind Over Body feat, and the Might Makes Right feat.
Result - slowly infinite str, gives slowly infinite followers, equals perhaps a Divine Rank 19 deity.

**

Flesh Golem 9 Savage Species Racial Class / Martial Monk 6 / Titan Bloodline 3 / Wizard ? 1 / Cleric ? 1
I don't know how this one would work but,
I'm guessing a Ring Of Tingles for the Hit point healing thingy via Wiz and the squeaker to target the Golem.
Cleric 1 for Divine Power on the list, to bump up BAB, unless a Skillful Weapon can be squeezed in.

[Bauglir]

Slightly OT, but since it could lead to a borkt version (and I'm all about sneaking Pun-pun-ishment), what are said combos TS found?

A Martial Monk chooses its bonus feats from the Fighter list. Monks don't have to meet the prerequisites for their bonus feats.

[Anklebite]

Slightly OT, but since it could lead to a borkt version (and I'm all about sneaking Pun-pun-ishment), what are said combos TS found?

A Martial Monk chooses its bonus feats from the Fighter list. Monks don't have to meet the prerequisites for their bonus feats.

basically, take feat chain capstones and epic fighter feats. weapon supremecy on a level 1 monk? sure. perfect two weapon fighting at level 2? go ahead. greater whirlwind attack from the ELH? why the hell not.

these aren't optimized examples or anything, but that is the sort of thing you can do. personally, I would check to see in exceptional/ray deflection and infinite deflection are fighter feats. and maybe missile reflection.

[KellKheraptis]

Slightly OT, but since it could lead to a borkt version (and I'm all about sneaking Pun-pun-ishment), what are said combos TS found?

A Martial Monk chooses its bonus feats from the Fighter list. Monks don't have to meet the prerequisites for their bonus feats.

basically, take feat chain capstones and epic fighter feats. weapon supremecy on a level 1 monk? sure. perfect two weapon fighting at level 2? go ahead. greater whirlwind attack from the ELH? why the hell not.

these aren't optimized examples or anything, but that is the sort of thing you can do. personally, I would check to see in exceptional/ray deflection and infinite deflection are fighter feats. and maybe missile reflection.

Ironically, the work I've been doing on a monk lately would be perfect with the deflection feats (trying to take a monk and make a DBZ character...when I know I can do 10000x better with psionics, but the fun is in the challenge!).

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Titan Bloodline does not actually increase your effective character level:

"Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below). " from the SRD on bloodlines.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Bloodline levels don't increase your character's level the same way a normal class level does, but they still increase your total level.  Otherwise they'd be practically free.

Sorry Linguist. wbm is right. And they are a high-powered variant, like LA buyoff (they are right next to each other in UA, and both require an XP cost). But it isn't nearly as bad as, say, gestalt.

I like the use of the ML bump from the bloodlines but using ardent is just ew... This looks like other tripple 9's with a big ass hammer

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Titan Bloodline does not actually increase your effective character level:

"Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below). " from the SRD on bloodlines.

I'll have to disagree with you there. Bloodline levels don't increase your character's level the same way a normal class level does, but they still increase your total level.  Otherwise they'd be practically free.

Sorry Linguist. wbm is right. And they are a high-powered variant, like LA buyoff (they are right next to each other in UA, and both require an XP cost). But it isn't nearly as bad as, say, gestalt.

I like the use of the ML bump from the bloodlines but using ardent is just ew... This looks like other tripple 9's with a big ass hammer

So what does it cost you to take a level of bloodline?

And once you've taken that level of bloodline, what does it cost you to take your next normal class level?

[awaken DM golem]

Monk stuff goes 6 + 3 from bloodline + Tash/Ardent 2 + Tash/PT 7 = 18 as a minimum.
If it counts the psi classes like a PrC, then add 3 per each = 24
If you think the PT doesn't extend the Tash on the Ardent, ditch the ardent and just use the Tash with the PT = 16 or 19
Maybe We need a bloodline hash out thread.

**

Tangent of sorts ...

"Lock" builds use Fighter Bonus feat LIST feats don't they ??
If so Martial Monk can get some or maybe all of those feats early.

I try to stay away from the Epic feats, especially since DvR 19 is good enough 
Plus, there've been enough splats to make some extra epic fighter feats floating around out there, that would be just as (good) stupid.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

So what does it cost you to take a level of bloodline?

And once you've taken that level of bloodline, what does it cost you to take your next normal class level?

Since you effectively 'take' a level you still have to pay the experience that you would normally have to to get to the next level.

Then when you take a normal level that counts for ECL, you pay experience to get there too.

[PhaedrusXY]

So what does it cost you to take a level of bloodline?

And once you've taken that level of bloodline, what does it cost you to take your next normal class level?

Since you effectively 'take' a level you still have to pay the experience that you would normally have to to get to the next level.

Then when you take a normal level that counts for ECL, you pay experience to get there too.

I don't agree with this. The bloodline level increases your max skill points and other things like a normal level would. I think it is more like a LA you can't buy off, but with a few more benefits (increased skill cap, etc).

Although... it sure would be nice if this were correct. It would be like having a template with a built-in LA buyoff mechanism... Hmm... is that really the way its supposed to work?

Edit: It really sounds like it counts as a class level to me.

A bloodline level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no class features. It counts as a normal class level (with no class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks. Levels of bloodline never result in XP penalties for multiclass characters.

If it wasn't a class level, then why would they mention XP penalties?

[awaken DM golem]

tangent

Do you think Martial Monk 6 / any Monk PrC 10-ish
would be a reasonable re-write of the Monk ??

[Anklebite]

the monk is pretty simple to fix. full BAB, can count unarmed as twohanded when not two weapon fighting, gains ex slow fall(as the spell) at 4th(remove the rest of the slow fall stuff that comes afterwards). granted, the monk now has dead levels, but the slow fall WAS pretty much dead levels anyways.

[Brainpiercing]

Hmmm, my monk fix:

Monk revision of select class features
[spoiler]
AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmoured and carrying no more than a medium load, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Intuitive Attack A monk can use either her Strength, Dexterity or Wisdom bonus to determine her melee attack bonus, and either her Dexterity or Wisdom bonus to determine her ranged attack bonus, whichever is most beneficial to her. This ability can only be used with unarmed strikes or with attacks with special monk weapons, and does not function when armoured.

Flurry of Blows Works like the original ability, with the exception that it also works when wearing light armour and while carrying up to a medium load.

Unarmed Strike:Ki Strike (Su):Slow Fall (Ex) and Air Step (Su):Abundant Step (Su):

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Should probably add AC bonus determining stat to saves, capped by monk level as well.  That makes monks competent at their whole "high saves" gimmick.