Author Topic: Wizard preparation  (Read 5248 times)

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Mister D

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Wizard preparation
« on: June 06, 2008, 04:01:49 PM »
I need a clarification on Wizards preparing spells. It seems to me that people read it to work on a one spell per level prepared. I see no line in the spellbook entry that states that. The other classes get one daily each time so it's not a problem for them. They get the dailies they know and each one they can use once per day. Wizard on the other hand get more choices. But why should they only be able to prepare one daily per level known? For example, if you choose two level 1 dailies at 5th level (for whatever reason. you can choose lower level power if you want.) you would have 4 dailies known and 2 dailies per day, which obviuosly would be 1st level. Why should you be forced to prepare one 1st and one 5th? The only power-per-day table I've seen is the generic one, and doesn't state any "level slot" for daily powers.
So, did I miss something?

Dan2

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 04:17:38 PM »
I'm not sure I understand your question...  If you're asking why wizards can only prepare one spell per level, it's because of game balance.

That being said, I'm nearly certain you can prepare lower-level spells in a higher level "slot".
In your example, you have four 1st level spells, I'm pretty sure you would prepare one in your "1st level slot" and one in your "5th level slot".
Since you used your 5th level daily choice to pick 1st level spells, you get to use them in your 5th daily slot.

Shigunaru

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 04:17:55 PM »
Straight from the PHB:

Quote
Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.

Emphasis mine.

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Mister D

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 04:40:22 PM »
no, it says you can also choose a lower level power, on the power entry o page 28, I believe. I think it' also valid for wizards, as the spellbook class feature simply allows you to know one more power per level.

What I mean is: aside from the line in the spellbook entry that says you can prepare one of two dailies at first level, when you only have one daily per day anyway, is there a line somewhere that explicits that you can't choose to prepare your spells regardless of their level? Like, you have four spells known, and two spells per day, and you can prepare whichever spells you choose in those "slots"?

I'm not trying to find an exploitable way to read a rule. It's just that I didn't find the rule stated clearly. Am i the only one who sees this as confusing?

phelanarcetus

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 05:34:35 PM »
I don't recall anything actually explicitly stating this.

At 1st level a wizard knows 2 Wizard Daily Attack 1s.  He can prepare one per extended rest.
At 5th level he can add to his spellbook 2 Wizard Daily Attack 5s.  He can now prepare two Daily Attacks per extended rest.

Does the wizard prepare one of his two 1st level attacks and one of his two 5th level attacks, or is he able to prepare both of his 5th level attacks?

That is the question.  And while I strongly suspect the intended answer is the former (1 1st level, 1 5th level), I don't think there's anything specified.

Gholam

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2008, 08:33:17 AM »
Wouldn't the "You can't prepare the same spell twice." sentence at the end of the first paragraph under the Daily and Utility Spells section that Shigunaru referenced clear all of this up?

Also, the section the OP mentioned on page 28 refers to swapping daily powers out as you level up (and how you can take a lower level daily power if you so choose), not the preparation of daily powers.


Dan2

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 12:14:46 PM »
The clause that prevents you from preparing the same spell twice does not actually help us:

lv 5 wizard: Level 1 dailies are sleep and Flaming Sphere.  Level 5 dailies are Web and Bigby's
He gets two daily spells
Prepare Web and Bigby's...

IIRC, someone emailed WotC and got a response supporting the idea of one daily spell per "level" (a few variations if you don't replace your spells)

Squirrelloid

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2008, 12:54:04 PM »
Eh, wizards need all the help they can get.  I'd be really tempted to play it RAW and see how it goes first.  The wizard's most powerful mojo just means larger areas effected or the like, and sometimes their best spells are their lower level ones (sleep, i'm looking at you).
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pfooti

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 01:34:43 PM »
Yeah, I emailed CustServ, and got the same kind of responses that other people got. When you learn new powers, you learn 2 at a time (or 3 with expanded spellbook), and when you do the power-swap at levels with an asterisk, you swap in and out 2 (or 3) at a time. But you cannot memorize more than one power of a given level, essentially. There needs to be a table for this crap.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2008, 02:18:08 PM »
As squirelloid mentions there are lots of good low level effects,

and they level better than they did in 3.5.  Basically you are doing a d6 or 2 less damage - and a slightly reduced area on average.

I'll gladly prepare sleep and Shield at mid-high level - they remain good for a long time.

Being forced to prepare 1 spell per "package" is a tiny nerf.  It does require you to keep track of spell levels though.
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pfooti

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 02:26:56 PM »
Yeah, its more the overhead of keeping track of which is which that is annoying. You can't even really do it by "package", because you'll probably never ditch sleep, so there will be some weirdness in the spell level distribution. All in all, it's a pretty annoying amount of stuff to track.

brislove

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 04:05:38 PM »
Yeah, I emailed CustServ, and got the same kind of responses that other people got. When you learn new powers, you learn 2 at a time (or 3 with expanded spellbook), and when you do the power-swap at levels with an asterisk, you swap in and out 2 (or 3) at a time. But you cannot memorize more than one power of a given level, essentially. There needs to be a table for this crap.

There is I dun founded it. DMG page 143. Creating characters above first level.

Squirrelloid

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 04:14:36 PM »
Yeah, I emailed CustServ, and got the same kind of responses that other people got. When you learn new powers, you learn 2 at a time (or 3 with expanded spellbook), and when you do the power-swap at levels with an asterisk, you swap in and out 2 (or 3) at a time. But you cannot memorize more than one power of a given level, essentially. There needs to be a table for this crap.

There is I dun founded it. DMG page 143. Creating characters above first level.

Is provably wrong for wizards.  Read the "Powers" paragraph next to it, which explicitly defines the powers column in the table.  Its a list of powers you *have*, not *use* each day.  For most classes these are identical.  But wizards provably *have* more powers than that.  QED.
The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels. -Chip 4:2

brislove

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 04:52:22 PM »
Ahh but that table gives us insight into what
Quote
"according to what you can cast per day for your level"
means. Certainly RAW can b argued till the end of time, but this table gives us an outline that clearly shows the intent of the rules. It shows the power slots available per level I think this table coupled with the line of text in the spellbook section makes the intent of the rules quite clear.

Dan2

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2008, 04:57:58 PM »
Is provably wrong for wizards.  Read the "Powers" paragraph next to it, which explicitly defines the powers column in the table.  Its a list of powers you *have*, not *use* each day.  For most classes these are identical.  But wizards provably *have* more powers than that.  QED.

I thought your comment was funny in that it pointed out how completely WotC managed to make themselves unclear from a rules-only perspective.  So, props there. :)

Mister D

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Squirrelloid

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 09:13:10 AM »
Yeah, I emailed CustServ, and got the same kind of responses that other people got. When you learn new powers, you learn 2 at a time (or 3 with expanded spellbook), and when you do the power-swap at levels with an asterisk, you swap in and out 2 (or 3) at a time. But you cannot memorize more than one power of a given level, essentially. There needs to be a table for this crap.

Quote from: PHB FAQ
How does retraining and multiclassing work with the spellbook?

If you retrain a daily or utility power you only replace one of your two choices for that level. If you replace the power with a power from a different class through multiclassing you replace both spell choices with the new power.

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heffroncm

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 10:05:58 AM »
You're absolutely right Suirrelloid.  The response from Customer Service had NOTHING AT ALL to do with Retraining.

To clarify, Retraining is the process through which you can change one thing per level, be it a feat or a power.  If you change a power through retraining, you HAVE TO pick a power of the exact same level as the one you are giving up.  You can change Sleep for Freezing Cloud through Retraining, but you cannot give up Sleep for Fireball.  To do that, you have to wait until level 15, when you can replace a Daily of your choice with a Daily of a different level.  For a Wizard, this means replacing all of the Dailies of that level with Dailies of a different level.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 10:08:32 AM by heffroncm »

Squirrelloid

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 10:36:17 AM »
I fail to see why, under the rules, the two should be treated differently (outside of the trading up in levels vs. trading within levels).  Beyond available levels they're equivalent mechanically for other classes, why not for wizards?  The PHB RAW provides no reason to think the number of powers exchanged behaves differently between the two.
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heffroncm

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Re: Wizard preparation
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 11:07:43 AM »
They behave differently mechanically because they are different mechanics.  Retraining is a minor alteration in your character's options.  Replacing a low level power with a higher level power is a significant increase in your character's abilities.