Author Topic: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]  (Read 7378 times)

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bkdubs123

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 09:00:22 AM »
Is there any good reason why the Disarm action takes a -5 penalty to the attack roll?
I think it must be that difficult, otherwise it would become a too common action. A disarmed PC loses much of her power (if a fighter even more), so the rules must discourage such an action, but still make it possible. In 4e there is neither the possibility to disarm, except for a fighter encounter power.

I'll assume you've played 3.5 and 4e before. Since, I'm going with that assumption, I'll also assume you know how badly disarm sucks in 3.5. I don't know what the rules in 4e are like for disarm, but if size has anything to do with it (like 3.5), then I'm sure it sucks. Does size matter for your disarm action (do larger creatures get size bonuses to resist)?

You do realize that disarm is already going to be a very uncommon action anyway. First you have to ask how often the players are actually going to face enemies with manufactured weapons. On top of that, the chance to be disarmed in return is already doing a decent job of discouraging its use, in my opinion.

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For instance, there are NO attacks of opportunity, which I think make the combat very tactical.

Ah, see I hadn't noticed this. Interesting.

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Second, feat and talents that slide, bull rush and move opponents are much less common than in 4e, so the battlefield (see, miniatures and grid) is less fundamental.

Which, personally, I do like. Being able to move opponents is nice (since 3.5 Bull Rush is really the only common ability, but it sucks), but 4e went NUTS with it.

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Still, if you have some ideas that will differentiate my system from 4e, you are really welcome to explain them. H20 does not want to be a clone (it would be illegal too), but a stand-alone system. The draft is similar to 3.5 and 4e to create a common ground where to experiment.

Well, 4e and 3.5 combat statistics aren't drastically different, so going for a middle ground is naturally going to resemble them. There are differences to be sure. Probably enough to cover your backside.

StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 09:13:13 AM »
I'll assume you've played 3.5 and 4e before. Since, I'm going with that assumption, I'll also assume you know how badly disarm sucks in 3.5. I don't know what the rules in 4e are like for disarm, but if size has anything to do with it (like 3.5), then I'm sure it sucks. Does size matter for your disarm action (do larger creatures get size bonuses to resist)?
No, there are no modifiers for creatures or weapons size.

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You do realize that disarm is already going to be a very uncommon action anyway. First you have to ask how often the players are actually going to face enemies with manufactured weapons. On top of that, the chance to be disarmed in return is already doing a decent job of discouraging its use, in my opinion.
You DO have a point. Maybe the -5 penalty and the risk to be disarmed when failing can be too discouraging. A -2 penalty (keeping the risk of being disarmed) is enough?
Regarding the enemies faced, I personally love Npcs so much more than monsters, so the possibility is not remote at all. Still, in H20 there should be much less magic items (weapons, orbs, staffs...) that make disarm a huge pain in the groin.
Now, I correct to -2, that seems fair.

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2009, 12:04:18 PM »
I especially liked the lack of opportunity attacks and now that their are going to be less bull rushish abilities it is getting better. I personally dislike using grids and miniatures. An antigrid d20.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2009, 01:19:29 PM »
It would be awesome to find even abstract movement rules: as far as they are now, you still need some concrete way of measuring, and the fast method is the grid and miniature.
The problem is that abstract movement requires the rewriting of large parts of the system, potentially unbalancing it as a whole.

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2009, 09:20:07 PM »
I already use abstract movement in 3.5.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2009, 08:07:25 AM »
I already use abstract movement in 3.5.
And how did you modify the rules? The main problem is balance, especially with spells. The problem may be lessened because in H20 the magic is much different from traditional D&D, but I still see a difficult in having abstract movement.


EDIT: By the way, The Feats are up!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 02:59:58 PM by StormingMarcus »

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2009, 03:49:38 PM »
And how did you modify the rules? The main problem is balance, especially with spells. The problem may be lessened because in H20 the magic is much different from traditional D&D, but I still see a difficult in having abstract movement.
Pretty much I had everyone's range be hand-to-hand (swords, daggers, melee), close (thrown weapons, pikes), medium (short bows and crossbows), far (longbows), and distant (catapult). The movement was small, medium, large, huge, et cetra. However, some creatures are slower than others. Dwarves where medium but moved like smalls, gelatinous cubes moved like mediums, horses galloped at huge, and so on. D&D is heroic, so if the players asked if they were in charge range of a creature in the same room and no one else was in the way, I said 'Sure'.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2009, 04:03:09 PM »
Pretty much I had everyone's range be hand-to-hand (swords, daggers, melee), close (thrown weapons, pikes), medium (short bows and crossbows), far (longbows), and distant (catapult). The movement was small, medium, large, huge, et cetra. However, some creatures are slower than others. Dwarves where medium but moved like smalls, gelatinous cubes moved like mediums, horses galloped at huge, and so on. D&D is heroic, so if the players asked if they were in charge range of a creature in the same room and no one else was in the way, I said 'Sure'.
It sounds like a great idea, but how did you manage the spells, especially those with area getting bigger by caster level and the like?
And, if creature A is within B's close range does that mean that B is within A's close range? If not, how do you establish when this happens and when not?

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2009, 08:09:16 PM »
If A is in B's close range, than B is in A's close range. If a spell increases its range over time than the base range increases every 6 levels to a max of distant.

For movement: if creature A and B are the same size and creature A is in charge range, than creature B is in as well. If they have different move sizes then it changes things. Assume A has a small movement and B has a large movement. When B can charge A, A cannot charge B. If A can charge B then B can charge A.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2009, 03:29:00 PM »
Interesting, no doubt.

When I will have finished the italian files (not many more to come), I'll try to implement non-literal speed as well.

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2009, 03:52:45 PM »
Cool. Give me a bit and I'll look at all of the feats.
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Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2009, 02:30:21 AM »
I like the feats. Some of them will change if you add in abstract movement, and I have to ask:
What are the defenses? AC, Reflex, Fortitude, and Will or is AC gone?
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2009, 02:19:44 PM »
As written in the combat document, there are only 3 defenses: Fortitude, Reflexes and Will.
AC is gone, armors give very little DR (called weapon damage resistance).

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2009, 03:21:24 PM »
Nice. I tired to do that and make all dodging Reflex, but I didn't balance the DRs properly. How did you lay yours out?
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2009, 03:32:58 PM »
How did you lay yours out?
Here lies the problem. The probability one opponent can never damage you (even with a critical) is not so high, because of level-based bonus on damage and the low DR numbers (up until now the highest is 4).
Still, it badly needs playtesting and a thorough look at stacking issues.

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 02:50:07 PM »
I used the idea that your Hp is just your fatigue and taking bruises. You have a second score that is equal to your con score that is your actual health. Once your health is gone, you die. Once your Hp is gone, you may then take the actual Heath damage.
The DR I just thought of, is that you have an advancement of armour like in 4e. You may have level 1 or level 3 armour, both with +1 bonuses. These DR ratings would stack, so you are wearing level 3 chainmail that has a normal +4 bonus. If it is magic, an extra +1. So that is a basic DR of 8. You will get hit more, but as a tank with a lot of armour, you will take less damage.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 03:57:32 PM »
Rogue is up!

Alea_Iacta_Est

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2009, 07:19:03 PM »
You could go in and add a few more stealth, dungeon/trap oriented, and thievery talents. It is the root of the rogue after all.
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StormingMarcus

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2009, 08:07:21 AM »
Sure, but inspiration lacks now...

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Re: My own take on d20: H20 [Help much appreciated!]
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2009, 03:57:43 PM »
Sorry, I'm a bit slow on the translations...

By the way, given the somewhat abstract nature of hit point, I think the Bloodied and Bleeding terms are not correct. Do you have a better name to suggest?
I think it could be something like "shaken", or even "fatigued", so merging the two conditions, and obviosuly modifying some rules according to this merging.