Author Topic: would like opinions on spy-type Rogue / Focused Diviner  (Read 1225 times)

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nuclearwookiee

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would like opinions on spy-type Rogue / Focused Diviner
« on: September 22, 2009, 05:16:31 AM »
So here's a query for you all of you!  I'm playing in a D&D 3.5 game at the moment.  This character started off as a knife-fighting Rogue/Swashbuckler headed in the direction of an Invisible Blade style melee sneak attacker.  He changed quickly into the party face, focusing more on being a social skill monkey.  The thing is, I really like having at least some casting ability, so I started looking at classes with their own small spell progessions.  I gave up on this and finally ended up wondering how well I could just put together a melee-capable faceman with some moderate arcane casting as a backup/utility caster.

The rest of the party consists of a Wu Jen blaster, a Druid archer that also takes care of heals and her pet, and a Barbarian/Scout starring as the resident BSF.

Since the game is in progress, my first 5 levels are locked down as is my race.  Level 3 feat is somewhat negotiable (as I haven't really "used" the feat I selected yet) and I only initially took one flaw out of a DM allowed limit of two.  If any suggestions call for the extra feat I could probably still purchase one with a flaw trade-off.

I used the Changeling Rogue racial substitution levels for Rogue levels 1 and 3, and used the martial wizard class variant to take Combat Expertise at level 7 instead of Scribe Scroll.

Race: Changeling

CL = Caster Level, ACL = Adjusted Caster Level, DCL = Divination Caster Level, SA = Sneak Attack Dice
* = Feats obtained as bonus feats from class levels
Lvl   Class                 BAB For Ref Wil Feats                               CL  ACL DCL SA
01    Rogue 01              00  00  02  00  Two-Weapon Fighting, Persuasive     00  00  00  01
02    Swashbuckler 01       01  02  02  00  Weapon Finesse*                     00  00  00  01
03    Rogue 02              02  02  03  00  Perfect Reflection                  00  00  00  01
04    Swashbuckler 02       03  03  03  00                                      00  00  00  02
05    Rogue 03              04  04  03  01                                      00  00  00  02
06    Swashbuckler 03       05  04  04  02  Combat Casting                      00  00  00  02
07    Wizard 01             05  04  04  04  Combat Expertise*                   01  01  01  02
08    Abjurant Champion 01  06  04  04  06                                      02  02  02  02
09    Abjurant Champion 02  07  04  04  07  Practiced Spellcaster               03  07  07  02
10    Abjurant Champion 03  08  05  05  07                                      04  08  08  02
11    Abjurant Champion 04  09  05  05  08                                      05  09  09  02
12    Abjurant Champion 05  10  05  05  08  Daring Outlaw                       10  12  12  03
13    Unseen Seer 01        10  05  05  10                                      10  13  13  04
14    Unseen Seer 02        11  05  05  11  Silent Spell*                       11  14  14  04
15    Unseen Seer 03        12  06  06  11  Staggering Strike                   12  15  16  04
16    Unseen Seer 04        13  06  06  12                                      13  16  17  05
17    Rogue 04              14  06  07  12                                      14  17  18  06
18    Ranger 01             15  08  09  12  Craven                              15  18  19  06
19    Fighter 01            16  10  09  12  Bonus Feat*                         16  19  20  06
20    Spellsword 01         17  12  09  14                                      17  20  21  06

This build leaves me with a decent BAB, caster level of 20 for all spells except divination spells which cast at level 21 (thanks to Martial Arcanist and Practiced Spellcaster).  I end up with 6th level spells, giving access to most of the good scouting and spying divinations, which is in line with the character concept of being a general grifter/spy/information broker.  If I go with a Focused Diviner I would only end up with 6th level non-Divination spells if I hit bonus spells at that level but would be well-stocked on Divinations.

It really seems like I can do something better with my last four levels.  I basically just piled on classes for saves and the one level of spell progression from Spellsword is what hits 6th level spells for me.  This means that half my Fort bonus comes from my last three character levels.   :lol  It also only leaves me with 6d6 Sneak Attack (most of which accumulates post-level 11), although I will have access to Hunter's Eye from my Unseen Seer levels.

Anyway, I would like to keep the BAB at 17, because dropping it any lower than that reduces my caster level below 20 for non-Divination spells.  I am leaning towards Improved Feint for the level 19 Fighter bonus feat, but hate taking that and Craven so late in the game.  Any good ways to tweak this?

Thanks!

NW

Brainpiercing

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Re: would like opinions on spy-type Rogue / Focused Diviner
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 07:25:44 AM »
Hmmm..

If you're only getting to 6th level spells anyway, how about getting Able Learner as that remaining first-level flaw-feat, and taking Chameleon? Chameleon allows a very workable spell list, and you could eventually get Divine Power on the Divine side and nice Arcane buffs on the Arcane side. And I think Chameleon works with Changeling, IIRC.
Now I know you can't use Chameleon spellcasting as prerequisite for anything, but strangely enough, the sage once ruled that you could still advance it via prestige classes - if you could make the prereqs in other ways.
So what I did for a build once was take Chameleon to 10, then took a level of Transmuter (but I would actually take Conjurer now), just for prereqs, but then added Unseen Seer to advance Chameleon casting.
The build was Swashbuckler3/Rogue2/Chameleon10/FS Transm. 1/Unseen Seer 3/Rogue1, which starts exactly as you have, with the exception that you took your three rogue levels already.

For your build, I would actually take a non-descript class like the Eldritch Knight after Unseen Seer, although the combination you have of course gives greater Save bonuses. Feat-wise you come out the same, but the added CL will give more sneak-attack dice through Hunter's Eye, and grant 7th level spells.
So basicaly Rogue3/Swash3/Wiz1/AbCha5/US4/Spellsw.1/EK3; BAB 18, CL18(17)/19(Div) and 7th level spells. I'm not sure I would take Daring Outlow. Probably advancing the TWF-line will give greater rewards in the end.