Author Topic: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil  (Read 5161 times)

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Kobal

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Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« on: September 18, 2009, 11:07:32 AM »
Some questions I had regarding that PrC that I did not find the answer for:

- What sort of action is required to raise a warding? I have read the description of the Prestige Class three times in a row now but did not find whether it requires a standard action or whether it can be done quicker.
- Since I never played the class before, at what level do those that played it consider it to come into its own? Is it good from the start, or does it need the indigo veil (getting the double warding at the same level does not hurt) to shine?
- I read several mentions that the class can somehow overcome even an anti-magic field with its class abilities. Would someone please elaborate?

Havok4

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 11:15:11 AM »
Some of the higher level vials block magical effects. The vials are also function like the prismatic wall spell which functions in an antimagic field. So by extension some vials can block antimagic fields.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 11:31:21 AM »
While i don't have an official answer i would say it is a standard action. This also being based off of what the ability is built from, prismatic wall, and the wording of reactive warding ability.

Some of the higher level vials block magical effects. The vials are also function like the prismatic wall spell which functions in an antimagic field. So by extension some vials can block antimagic fields.
Veil = what we are talking about or a piece of cloth
vial = small glass container, used for potions and science experiments.

Slight difference there. just wanted that pointed out.
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Agita

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 11:41:36 AM »
Damn you for ninja'ing me on both counts, arcanis. Accursed need for food intake... :p

Warding is a (Sp) ability, so it defaults to a Standard action, IIRC. At lvl 4, you become able to use it as an Immediate action instead. (EDIT: And can, by extension, use it as a swift action on your turn.)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 12:02:28 PM by Agita »
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 11:55:33 AM »
Damn you for ninja'ing me on both counts, arcanis. Accursed need for food intake... :p

Warding is a (Sp) ability, so it defaults to a Standard action, IIRC. At lvl 4, you become able to use it as an Immediate action instead.

Sweet I finally got to ninja someone, at least ninja them and them live  :ninja

Just to further support Agita:
Quote from: SRD
A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated.
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Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Kobal

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 01:38:35 PM »
So as the logical consequence until you can cast the warding as an immediate/swift action the prestige class is not that good, since you usually have more important things to do during the first round of combat. Am I correct?

Alastar

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 01:51:34 PM »
You are correct, although placing walls that deal 20/40/80 damage if you pass throught them is still a very valid battlefield control option (especially if you have a pinballer in your group, like a force focused sorcerer, a knockbaking fighter, or anything else that makes people move where they don't want to go :))

Also, blocks line of sight, always good.

Agita

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 01:59:23 PM »
Well, the personal and area Wardings last minutes/level, so if you can predict combat, you could cast them just before it starts. The wall version lasts longer, and as Alastar said, is a decent battlefield control option in its own right.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 02:04:22 PM by Agita »
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OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2009, 01:50:17 AM »
Here's a question I always had about the Initiate - if the wardings function as the layers of a Prismatic Wall, and Prismatic Wall blocks all spells, then surely an Initiate can't cast spells at anyone but himself while his wardings are up?

pithica

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 02:27:15 PM »
Here's a question I always had about the Initiate - if the wardings function as the layers of a Prismatic Wall, and Prismatic Wall blocks all spells, then surely an Initiate can't cast spells at anyone but himself while his wardings are up?

Only if he has the particular veil (Indigo) up that blocks all spells. He can still use Su's (like reserve feats), personal or touch spells on himself, touch spells delivered via his familiar, et cetera.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 02:33:07 PM »
Here's a question I always had about the Initiate - if the wardings function as the layers of a Prismatic Wall, and Prismatic Wall blocks all spells, then surely an Initiate can't cast spells at anyone but himself while his wardings are up?

Only if he has the particular veil (Indigo) up that blocks all spells. He can still use Su's (like reserve feats), personal or touch spells on himself, touch spells delivered via his familiar, et cetera.
He can also shape some of them, right? And per Prismatic Wall, the mage can pass through them unharmed. So if he has Flyby Attack, he could fly out, cast a spell, and fly back in. Even if he doesn't, he could use some kind of short range teleport (like Abrupt Jaunt :P ).
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

pithica

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 03:08:28 PM »
Yeah, the only one it matters on is the 'Personal' warding with an Indigo veil. Which, if you weren't prepped for it could catch you by surprise (like casting Wall of Smoke or Fog Cloud and suddenly remembering you need line of sight for the spell you wanted to follow up with). It's a non-action to dismiss the ward, though, and, as I said before there are some ways around it, so it's really only a big deal in a few situations.

Nachofan99

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 04:04:13 PM »
Here's a question I have about the Initiate.

Is there a non-cheese way to attack them through their veils or do I really have to cast upwards of 3 spells (to get through the best layers) to actually make them attackable?

pithica

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 04:12:43 PM »
If they don't have the Indigo Veil up, you can Spell Theft or Reaving Dispel them and steal all the veils. SLA's are subject to dispels just like spells are, and Spell Theft let's you take the effects and apply them to yourself if you succeed on the dispel check.

Of course, with all their natural defenses against dispelling, succeeding on that roll may prove impossible, but it's the only tactic I could come up with to do it in one single swoop.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2009, 05:02:24 PM »
Here's a question I have about the Initiate.

Is there a non-cheese way to attack them through their veils or do I really have to cast upwards of 3 spells (to get through the best layers) to actually make them attackable?
Have really high saving throws and/or rerolls? I mean seriously, can't you just walk over and punch the guy, if you're willing to take the pain of doing so? You could also do this to deliver some nasty touch effect, cast a spell on him, etc.

If they don't have the Indigo Veil up, you can Spell Theft or Reaving Dispel them and steal all the veils. SLA's are subject to dispels just like spells are, and Spell Theft let's you take the effects and apply them to yourself if you succeed on the dispel check.

Of course, with all their natural defenses against dispelling, succeeding on that roll may prove impossible, but it's the only tactic I could come up with to do it in one single swoop.
A prismatic wall is immune to dispel magic, though, and I'd assume that would include other spells based on it.

Edit: Maybe not. It specifically says DM and GDM, and isn't open ended. I guess RAW it wouldn't be immune to Reaving Dispel and the like.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 05:04:40 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Bauglir

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2009, 05:30:29 PM »
Except those spells all work exactly like dispel magic, with the exceptions listed. Since those exceptions don't include prismatic wall vulnerability, I don't think they'd trump it.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

pithica

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Re: Questions regarding the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2009, 06:55:28 PM »
The description of veils only has it duplicating the individual 'layers' of a prismatic wall, not the effect of a prismatic wall spell. Whether this allows them to be dispelled or not, I don't know, but I think so.

It's a bad idea, though, cause of the DC's involved. Dispels are already checks that favor the defenders, and with the +DC from the ISV class, and the +DC from the ring of enduring arcana he's probably wearing, and the +CL from all the other items/feats/spells he's got up at any given time (like any other full caster), all paired with the cap on every version of dispel, you're probably looking at (at best) an 18 or better needed to roll on a spell theft (if not just flat out impossible), and probably some similarly difficult numbers even with reaving dispel.

I mostly threw that out there as sarcasm.