Author Topic: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting  (Read 3471 times)

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bkdubs123

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[PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« on: September 17, 2009, 03:19:42 PM »
I just got this crazy idea in my head that, while it isn't really going to make the Pathfinder Fighter all that more effective, it will make it a hell of a lot cooler. The idea starts with the Armor Training ability, and spirals out from there.

Armor Training decreases the Armor Check Penalty of armors the Fighter wears and increases the Max Dex Bonus. Kinda cool, so high level Fighters can wear Full Plate and rock out. So, the first idea I had was - increase Fighters' dang skill points and skill list! That way they can take advantage of having reduced ACP and increased MDB.

Fighter Class Skills (6+Int): Acrobatics, Appraise, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Engineering, Local, Nobility), Perception, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Swim

Then from that idea I thought. Hey, what if instead of gaining a bonus to AC, or to attack and damage, from Armor and Weapon Training respectively, what if Fighters could select armor and weapon enhancements that apply to their armor/weapons to an equivalent bonus value? So, at 3rd level, a Fighter could choose an Armor Enhancement of +1 value, and apply it to all armors he wears, forgoing the normal +1 to AC. At 5th level, a Fighter could choose a Weapon Enhancement of +1 value, and apply it to all weapons of the chosen weapon group, forgoing the normal +1 to attacks and damage. Of course, those enhancements include some really, overtly magical stuff like Flaming/Holy/etc, so if you so desired you could limit what enhancements a Fighter could gain to more mundane stuff like Fortification, Bane, and Speed.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 05:20:39 PM by bkdubs123 »

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 11:15:10 AM »
I agree that Fighters aren't all that interesting.  Maybe a little more interesting than 3.5 (they got rid of dead levels) but not that interesting anyways.

Not sure they got the shaft like has been suggested though.  Certainly they did in Beta - but in the new rules, Combat Manouvers got better, and there are things you can do with Combat Manouvers that you couldn't do in 3.5, if you have the feats.

For example, given the correct feats (a fighter's strength), you can bull rush an opponent - have his movement from that bull rush provoke attacks of opportunity, then bash into one of his pals, have them bull rushed as well, have their movement provoke attacks of opportunity as well.  Having your CM work on multiple opponents with one attack is an idea begging for optimization and some teamwork play.

Having the weapon bonuses apply to combat manouvers is a big plus therefore, and I would hate to see fighters give that up.  Currently they are set up to be very good at combat manouvers, far better than any other class.
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bkdubs123

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Re: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 11:53:01 AM »
I agree that Fighters aren't all that interesting.  Maybe a little more interesting than 3.5 (they got rid of dead levels) but not that interesting anyways.

Not sure they got the shaft like has been suggested though.

I'm not talking about Fighters "getting the shaft."

Quote
Having the weapon bonuses apply to combat manouvers is a big plus therefore, and I would hate to see fighters give that up.  Currently they are set up to be very good at combat manouvers, far better than any other class.

My above suggestion is something that the Fighter could choose to do, rather than gain the normal bonuses. Anytime Weapon Training comes around they could swap out the numeric bonus for a magical enhancement of equal value, if they want to. Next time it crops up, they can do the same, even trading their old one in for a higher enhancement, or they can choose to take the normal +1.

The Skills thing is something I've advocated all along, and something I think the Pathfinder Fighter especially ought to have.

Treantmonklvl20

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Re: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 03:52:17 PM »
I agree that Fighters aren't all that interesting.  Maybe a little more interesting than 3.5 (they got rid of dead levels) but not that interesting anyways.

Not sure they got the shaft like has been suggested though.

I'm not talking about Fighters "getting the shaft."

Quote
Having the weapon bonuses apply to combat manouvers is a big plus therefore, and I would hate to see fighters give that up.  Currently they are set up to be very good at combat manouvers, far better than any other class.

My above suggestion is something that the Fighter could choose to do, rather than gain the normal bonuses. Anytime Weapon Training comes around they could swap out the numeric bonus for a magical enhancement of equal value, if they want to. Next time it crops up, they can do the same, even trading their old one in for a higher enhancement, or they can choose to take the normal +1.

The Skills thing is something I've advocated all along, and something I think the Pathfinder Fighter especially ought to have.

I worded that poorly - I never meant your post suggested Fighters got the shaft...

I don't think your idea would be terribly unbalanced...however, this would be a change from the standard "non-magical" fighter.  Certainly as a houserule I don't think it would hurt anything, as long as you don't mind the change to fighter-flavour.
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bkdubs123

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Re: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 04:14:15 PM »
I don't think your idea would be terribly unbalanced...however, this would be a change from the standard "non-magical" fighter.  Certainly as a houserule I don't think it would hurt anything, as long as you don't mind the change to fighter-flavour.

Yeah, and as I suggested, if it seems "too magical" for anyone's taste people can make a short list of more mundane effects like so:

Armor - Light Fortification, Silent Moves, Improved Silent Moves, Invulnerability, Moderate Fortification, Greater Silent Moves, Heavy Fortification

Shields - Arrow Deflection, Bashing, Light Fortification, Moderate Fortification, Heavy Fortification, Reflecting

Melee Weapons - Bane, Defending, Keen, Ki Focus, Merciful, Mighty Cleaving, Throwing, Anarchic (only if Fighter is Chaotic), Axiomatic (only if Fighter is Lawful), Holy (only if Fighter is Good), Unholy (only if Fighter is Evil), Wounding, Speed, Vorpal

Ranged Weapons - Bane, Distance, Merciful, Seeking, Anarchic (only if Fighter is Chaotic), Axiomatic (only if Fighter is Lawful), Holy (only if Fighter is Good), Unholy (only if Fighter is Evil), Speed

And I'm sure a whole host of other effects could be added if you possess the Magic Item Compendium. And yes, of course I'd keep the Fighter fluff the same. This ability would be fluffed pretty much the same as normal Armor/Weapon Training as well, put simply as the Fighter learning special abilities and having the skill to apply them to all armors/weapons of the same type.

Dilvish

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Re: [PF] Making the Pathfinder Fighter more interesting
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 05:00:16 PM »
Interesting.

The skills are good, without turning the fighter into a skill-monkey.

The more magical enhancements could work by giving them appropriate prerequisites: classes, races, spells and feats.