Author Topic: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?  (Read 7218 times)

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Sinfire Titan

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2009, 12:31:34 AM »
So do you think Spell storing arrows are Overpowered then, or just a good option?

And isn't the CL and DC the minimum needed to cast the spell?

RAW, that only applies to magic items. Spellstoring is a separate story. The DC of a spell in a spellstoring weapon doesn't change, so the DC and CL are caster-dependent.

Also, there's a really useful button in each post called "Quote". Please start using it instead of the "".

Deal, none of these: ""

I agree with the logic of allowing Spell storing on arrows.

Ok, so if CL and DC are based on caster, here is an idea based on mid level play:
Kelp strand in arrow of Spell storing:
Druid 10 + Ank of ... + Prayer beads of karma + Talisman of the 12 moons=CL20
Wisdom base+enhancement+owles wisdom=34 (+12)
Grapple bonuses from items &/or feats: +4

Total grapple check: +36 (no save, no SR, and they have to beat 6 of them or be grappled for 20 rounds!)
Sick combow or what?!?! :smirk

Maybe this is a reason to limit CL and DC to min needed.

Hate to break the news to you, but the only thing you will be grappling with a +36 modifier at CR 10th is a Rakshasa, the Guardian Naga, maybe an Adult White Dragon (before Str), the Juvenile Silver, a Noble Salamander, possibly a Juvenile Red (but only if you roll well/debuff him), an 11-headed Pryohydra (which can still kill you), a Clay Golem (but it's immune to magic anyway), a fire Giant, a Formian Myrmarch (but it just teleports), possibly a Belbilith (but it plane shifts), a Couatl (plane shift again), and maybe a Young Adult Brass.

About half of the CR 10s alone are able to escape. Some of them can beat your grapple check by taking 10.

In other words, not likely useful, and very situational. A Druid would do better just Wild Shaping than putting that much effort into using Kelpstrand.


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Bauglir

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2009, 01:37:03 AM »
Text trumps table.  The table leaves spell storing items out of the ranged section, but the text allows them... thus, the text wins.  Of course, since the table is only of random generation, and is not an all inclusive list of all possible allowed weapons, there's not even a contradiction anyway.  So yes, by RAW, spell storing arrows are legal.

JaronK

Hm... although, on the OTHER hand, the text doesn't explicitly say you can. So there's no contradiction, because the text is silent while the table isn't. Also, quoth the DMG on Random Items, surrounded by text about the tables,
Quote
Sometimes you want to pick an item rather than generating it randomly. In this case, simply skim through the listings until you find one to your liking
This could be taken to mean either the tables or the descriptions of specific items, but the fact that it was placed within text on tables leads me to suspect the former.

That said, it's incredibly vague and I can accept a ruling either way. I just like playing devil's advocate sometimes.
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JaronK

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2009, 02:49:31 AM »
Hm... although, on the OTHER hand, the text doesn't explicitly say you can. So there's no contradiction, because the text is silent while the table isn't. Also, quoth the DMG on Random Items, surrounded by text about the tables,

The text allows you to put these enchantments on weapons, generally.  So the text DOES say you can.  Then it lists specific exceptions (in the form of some enchantments being only available on certain type of weapons).  So yeah, the text does say you can.

JaronK

Cephid Arcanis

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2009, 11:31:53 PM »

Hate to break the news to you, but the only thing you will be grappling with a +36 modifier at CR 10th is a Rakshasa, the Guardian Naga, maybe an Adult White Dragon (before Str), the Juvenile Silver, a Noble Salamander, possibly a Juvenile Red (but only if you roll well/debuff him), an 11-headed Pryohydra (which can still kill you), a Clay Golem (but it's immune to magic anyway), a fire Giant, a Formian Myrmarch (but it just teleports), possibly a Belbilith (but it plane shifts), a Couatl (plane shift again), and maybe a Young Adult Brass.

About half of the CR 10s alone are able to escape. Some of them can beat your grapple check by taking 10.

In other words, not likely useful, and very situational. A Druid would do better just Wild Shaping than putting that much effort into using Kelpstrand.

I gotta say, I don't know what you are talking about.  ???
a +36 grapple check is HUGE at level 10. I just went through the Monster Manual 3. out of the 130ish creatures there, there were only 15 who could regularly beat all 6 +36 grapple checks. There CL's are: 11,14,15,15,15,16,17,17,17,17,18,18,19,20,20.

Every other corperal creature (all 115 of them) would get it's ass kicked by a single 160gp arrow!

And at later levels I was going to use a Kensai's imbue ability to pump the druids BAB by 8. By then, the druid has a higher CL, BAB and wisdom so the grapple checks will beat every creature in the book!!  :lol

So, is there any rule that limits CL and DC to the min, or can I own almost everything with this totaly legal and DEVESTATING tactic?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:53:03 AM by Cephid Arcanis »
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pithica

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2009, 12:48:12 AM »
I have to say that I agree. I still regularly use Kelpstrand at 15th level and against the vast majority of things of even (and even greater CR) played straight out of the MM, it's regularly (75+%) successful. (At least, versus anything Corporeal). Even spellcasters still have to make grapple checks to cast anything that has a somatic/material/focus component (like Plane Shift). So, unless they happen to have something like Dimension Door (verbal only), even they aren't just automatically getting away.

Quote
So, is there any rule that limits CL and DC to the min, or can I own almost everything with this totaly legal and DEVESTATING tactic?

Not with spellstoring weapons, no. I have seen a DM or two house-rule it that way, since Spellstoring Rings do have that limit. YMMV.

Cephid Arcanis

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #45 on: September 16, 2009, 02:52:02 AM »
Yep, KELPSTRAND ROCKS!!!
A level 20 un-maxed druid has a grapple check of +44ish. The same as a TITAN! (and he gets 6 strands) and it can be easily quickened.

So I believe kelp strand is now the #1 spell for spell storing arrows  ;)

What else have we got?
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Cephid Arcanis

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #46 on: September 16, 2009, 03:14:51 AM »
Poor arcane archers.  Their class features all represented by magic weapons.

If only I could fit Antimagic sphere in a spell storing arrow...
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Anklebite

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #47 on: September 16, 2009, 03:19:51 AM »
Poor arcane archers.  Their class features all represented by magic weapons.

If only I could fit Antimagic sphere in a spell storing arrow...
can't you just delay spell it onto an arrow and then fire it?
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Cephid Arcanis

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2009, 03:37:40 AM »
I don't think so. Target is self.
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Alastar

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2009, 01:36:54 PM »
Or... you know... they can use (su) abilities to teleport, spell like abilities to teleport, or a slew of other spells or abilities, like abrupt jaunt.  And then let's not even get started on freedom of movement, which is as common as herpes amongs strippers at the higher levels.


Sure, it's good.

The best?

Not really

Worth building around?

About as much as a grappling fighter.

pithica

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2009, 03:44:03 PM »
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 10:50:56 AM by pithica »

Cephid Arcanis

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Re: What druid spells would be deadly in spell storing arrows?
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PM »
Worth building around?

About as much as a grappling fighter.


If by "building around" you mean buying some 160gp arrows and using some down time then...
...sounds good to me!

I agree, not for EVERY fight, but it would be nice to through a few around when needed.
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